Faith and Hope

[JD731]

As for the consistency and logic of the theology - it's true that that has never been my primary interest. I am a Calvinist because I love the Puritans and their writings, not because the theological debate has won me over.

Yes, I can understand that. It is exactly what I expressed about MacArthur. I think it is the appeal of Calvinism. It is to be in the congregation of the elite. There is a huge price to pay for that I believe. I have heard him pretty much apologize for being a dispensationalist, such as he is.

But I have noticed that when it comes to theological debate, the staunch Calvinists completely mop up the floor with the non-Calvinists, both on this forum and in the books you read. But for me, I just noticed that the serious writings about sin and salvation were almost all being done by Calvinists.

If you identify non Calvinists as Russellites, Campbellites, Mormons, Pentecostals, Charismatics, Southern Baptists and even most fundamental Baptists I can see your point. As far as your point about sin and salvation, have you not followed what these Calvinists have argued on this very thread. The main posters and others on here cannot give a scriptural definition of sin or salvation. They do not know what faith is and they think to be dead spiritually is to be unable to think or reason and or process information to a desired end.

 

[AustinC]

As far as your point about sin and salvation, have you not followed what these Calvinists have argued on this very thread. The main posters and others on here cannot give a scriptural definition of sin or salvation. They do not know what faith is and they think to be dead spiritually is to be unable to think or reason and or process information to a desired end.

Sin:
Romans 3:10-20
“None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Salvation:
Romans 5:1-11
Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

JD, it would benefit you to actually grasp the scriptures we present to you.

 

[DaveXR650]

Yes, I can understand that. It is exactly what I expressed about MacArthur. I think it is the appeal of Calvinism. It is to be in the congregation of the elite. There is a huge price to pay for that I believe. I have heard him pretty much apologize for being a dispensationalist, such as he is.

I'm honestly not sure what you mean by that exactly. If you mean that Calvinism seems to attract folks that are on the nerdy side of normal or like the logic of a systematic theology or like to try to explain some of the mysteries of our existence, then you're probably right. I even saw a study one time that said that the average IQ of a Presbyterian is higher than that of a Baptist.

But seriously, the best thing I have seen in Calvinism is that it seems to have a very high view of God. And with that, a serious and honest view of our natural condition and our dependence upon God for anything that is good. There is also a very serious view of sin - and actually pursuing a holy life as a priority. I found the Puritan literature to be a good source for explaining these things - far more helpful than most of the psychology based pablum of the modern evangelical preachers and writers.

Just as a side note. I have found myself that if you read sermons by John Owen or John Bunyan you will find that the way they applied Calvinistic theology makes a lot more sense than just trying to understand it from an internet debater. If you read something like John Bunyan's "The Straight Gate" you will come away with a workable understanding of how the doctrines of grace work and how they apply in a practical way to the salvation of an individual. You will see a balanced treatment of God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. You also will probably scare yourself to death.

 

[AustinC]

I'm honestly not sure what you mean by that exactly. If you mean that Calvinism seems to attract folks that are on the nerdy side of normal or like the logic of a systematic theology or like to try to explain some of the mysteries of our existence, then you're probably right. I even saw a study one time that said that the average IQ of a Presbyterian is higher than that of a Baptist.

But seriously, the best thing I have seen in Calvinism is that it seems to have a very high view of God. And with that, a serious and honest view of our natural condition and our dependence upon God for anything that is good. There is also a very serious view of sin - and actually pursuing a holy life as a priority. I found the Puritan literature to be a good source for explaining these things - far more helpful than most of the psychology based pablum of the modern evangelical preachers and writers.

Just as a side note. I have found myself that if you read sermons by John Owen or John Bunyan you will find that the way they applied Calvinistic theology makes a lot more sense than just trying to understand it from an internet debater. If you read something like John Bunyan's "The Straight Gate" you will come away with a workable understanding of how the doctrines of grace work and how they apply in a practical way to the salvation of an individual. You will see a balanced treatment of God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. You also will probably scare yourself to death.

Just read the sermon to the Hebrews if you want see how a Preacher, whom Calvin admired, presented the gospel.