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Faith = belief
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canadyjd
Well-Known Member
The Greek “faith” (Pistus) has different meanings, according to the context.
It is used as a noun, at times, to refer to the Christian “faith” once for all delivered.
It is used as verb, denoting outward action. Specifically, it refers how one acts according to what they claim to believe. It is belief in action.
This is why James tells us “faith without works is (a) dead (faith).
English doesn’t have a corresponding verb denoting outward action, so (pistus) faith is translated as “belief” which denotes inward mental assent instead outward actions.
That has resulted in an unfortunate emphasis on inward mental assent, instead of outward actions.
peace to you
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
It's interesting you bring this up. We used to have a guy in our old church who was a "Clarkian", and he would get quite upset when our pastor would use the Puritan type ideas of faith being defined as more than "a belief in the propositions". There is an article by Gordon Clark on the Trinity Foundation website that explains this.
He even takes the Westminster Confession of Faith to task for trying to say that there is a separate "trust" as part of faith - his idea being that belief covers all that without being broken up. After seeing what "easy believism" has done to Christianity I can see what people are trying to do but sometimes I have to admit that it is also possible to keep enlarging the idea of "faith" to where it covers a lot more that it means.
A person's deeds and their faith are dictated from the heart. Our faith is not the source for our works, it's whether God has wrought within.
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canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Well, I don’t necessarily disagree. I was only pointing out the Greek word “faith” involves more than simple mental assent to certain facts about Jesus, as the word “belief” implies.
peace to you
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
As far as salvation is concerned "faith/belief" is mental assent to facts about Christ Jesus. Our faith /belief in Christ subsequent to our salvation is shown by our actions.
Evangelical, justifying, or saving faith, is the assent of the mind to the truth of divine revelation, on the authority of God's testimony, accompanied with a cordial assent of the will or approbation of the heart; an entire confidence or trust in God's character and declarations, and in the character and doctrines of Christ, with an unreserved surrender of the will to his guidance, and dependence on his merits for salvation.
In other words, that firm belief of God's testimony, and of the truth of the gospel, which influences the will, and leads to an entire reliance on Christ for salvation. Webster
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canadyjd
Well-Known Member
We disagree.
As far as salvation is concerned “faith/belief” is NOT mental assent to facts about Jesus (that is a well documented falsehood from a man named “Sandeman”)
As far as salvation is concerned, Faith/belief is about a relationship with Christ, with the person receiving God Holy Spirit as pledge promise that what God has revealed is true.
Jesus Himself testified that “MANY” would call Him “Lord” in the day of judgement and He would tell them, “depart from Me…. I never knew you”
All those folks calling Him “Lord” knew certain facts about Jesus and gave mental assent to those facts… but in the end they had no relationship with our Lord.
peace to you
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Well if faith/belief is not mental assent then what is it? The person has to hear and believe. They have to make a decision regarding the available information. As to Sandeman, never heard of him. You call it a falsehood but strangely the bible say we have to have faith. Romans 1:16
One can not have a relationship with someone they know nothing about, and one that they have chosen to have that relationship with. And again a decision based on information.
You just proved my point when you say Christ said "many" would call Him Lord because they knew certain facts about Him and gave mental assent to those facts. Even though we have people that make a false profession of faith does not alter the fact that those that make a true profession of faith still base that decision on the available information.
No matter how you want to approach this it still comes down to the person evaluating the available information and making a decision to place their faith in Him or not.
37818
Well-Known Member
I believe in an "easy" believeism. The enemies of easy believeism are at odds with Jesus per
Matthew 11:29-30, Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
1 John 5:9-13.
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
You're not using the term "easy believism" the same way I am. Notice in the verses you quoted you have Jesus talking about "coming to him", "resting" in him and taking his "yoke" upon yourself (which means submitting to him). That is I think a true definition of faith and of the beginning of discipleship.
"Easy believism" would be when someone is talked into a mental assent to the gospel facts as being true at an intellectual level, with no change desired or intended in the life or attitude. You may pray a prepared prayer and then you are saved, and then maybe, just maybe you may go on to follow Christ. It is rampant in the Western church and is wrong.
That is not to criticize your statement that faith = belief. That is true and it just reminded me of Gordon Clark's writing. Also, as @canadyjd pointed out, the writings of the Sandemanians if taken to an extreme. I just meant to say that in our zeal to make sure we have true faith and real faith we sometimes can go too far in defining faith and end up combining it with the results of faith as part of it's definition.
I'd say that there are different kinds of belief.
On a thread I mentioned that alpha radiation can be shielded with paper. A member (can't remember who) disputed that claim. I could not convince him otherwise.
He had read about radiation. I had as well.
Now, I had been taught that paper can shield alpha radiation (which is why it is an internal rather than external concern). I believed what I was taught.
Once in the field I learned what I was taught from experience.
I pulled a sample reading 4k dpm alpha and put it in a regular paper envelope. A reading from the sample through the paper read nothing. I took it out 6 hours later for a 6 hour count and it read over 2k dpm. Again, through the paper it read nothing.
I believed what I was taught in a different way because I had experienced it. AND that affected how I handle alpha contamination (if paper blocks it then it is a very real danger if inhaled because skin blocks it as well).
Now....could I make the other member believe it? Not at that cognitive level.
Salvation is an issue of belief, but not all belief is the same.
This is why salvation cannot be lost. Once experienced it is a known truth. A type of belief (cognative) may be a first step but it is a belief that can be lost. It can change. But once you experience something as true then you know it is true and nothing will change that. It will produce an action or fruit.
On a thread I mentioned that alpha radiation can be shielded with paper. A member (can't remember who) disputed that claim. I could not convince him otherwise.
He had read about radiation. I had as well.
Now, I had been taught that paper can shield alpha radiation (which is why it is an internal rather than external concern). I believed what I was taught.
Once in the field I learned what I was taught from experience.
I pulled a sample reading 4k dpm alpha and put it in a regular paper envelope. A reading from the sample through the paper read nothing. I took it out 6 hours later for a 6 hour count and it read over 2k dpm. Again, through the paper it read nothing.
I believed what I was taught in a different way because I had experienced it. AND that affected how I handle alpha contamination (if paper blocks it then it is a very real danger if inhaled because skin blocks it as well).
Now....could I make the other member believe it? Not at that cognitive level.
Salvation is an issue of belief, but not all belief is the same.
This is why salvation cannot be lost. Once experienced it is a known truth. A type of belief (cognative) may be a first step but it is a belief that can be lost. It can change. But once you experience something as true then you know it is true and nothing will change that. It will produce an action or fruit.