Faith, Coming to Christ pleases God !

[DHK]

Man by nature does not seek after God Rom 3:11 !

Restating error does not turn it into truth.
First, harmonize Rom.3:11 with Acts 17:26-31, the passage I posted for you.
Second, consider this passage also:

God the Holy Spirit inspired Moses to record this history:

Gen 26:28 And they said, We saw certainly that the LORD was with thee: and we said, Let there be now an oath betwixt us, even betwixt us and thee, and let us make a covenant with thee;
Gen 26:29 That thou wilt do us no hurt, as we have not touched thee, and as we have done unto thee nothing but good,
Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Moses writes that Abimilech, an idolatrous king, testifies to Isaac, that "he has done nothing but GOOD to Isaac and his people."
Is God lying in his own record of Israel? Yes or no?
Was it possible for this idolatrous king to do good? Yes or no?

Scripture does not contradict itself.
If a mother breastfeeds her infant, is it good or not?

What if a dog rescues a toddler from drowning. Did the dog do good?

 

[savedbymercy]

Restating error does not turn it into truth.
First, harmonize Rom.3:11 with Acts 17:26-31, the passage I posted for you.
Second, consider this passage also:

God the Holy Spirit inspired Moses to record this history:

Gen 26:28 And they said, We saw certainly that the LORD was with thee: and we said, Let there be now an oath betwixt us, even betwixt us and thee, and let us make a covenant with thee;
Gen 26:29 That thou wilt do us no hurt, as we have not touched thee, and as we have done unto thee nothing but good,
Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Moses writes that Abimilech, an idolatrous king, testifies to Isaac, that "he has done nothing but GOOD to Isaac and his people."
Is God lying in his own record of Israel? Yes or no?
Was it possible for this idolatrous king to do good? Yes or no?

Scripture does not contradict itself.
If a mother breastfeeds her infant, is it good or not?

What if a dog rescues a toddler from drowning. Did the dog do good?

I don't need to harmonize anything, for there is no contradiction ! Gods word states that none seeks after God Rom 3:11 ! That is men by nature ! Now you show me a scripture that says man by nature does seek after and understands God, then that would be a contradiction !

 

[DHK]

I don't need to harmonize anything, for there is no contradiction ! Gods word states that none seeks after God Rom 3:11 ! That is men by nature ! Now you show me a scripture that says man by nature does seek after and understands God, then that would be a contradiction !

Act 17:26-31 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; (27) That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: (28) For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. (29) Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. (30) And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: (31) Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

 

[Iconoclast]

Act 17:26-31 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; (27) That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: (28) For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. (29) Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. (30) And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: (31) Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Romans 3 is a quote from psalm 14..it harmonizes very well...God looked down from heaven...he said there was not one who seeks Him...not one.
14 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

No ...not one DHK...not even you...not one!

Acts 17 is a great passage...God has commanded all men everywhere to repent, they should seek Him....they do not want to however as they love sin more than God, or His truth. They are without excuse:wavey::wavey:

 

[DHK]

Romans 3 is a quote from psalm 14..it harmonizes very well...God looked down from heaven...he said there was not one who seeks Him...not one.
14 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

No ...not one DHK...not even you...not one!

Acts 17 is a great passage...God has commanded all men everywhere to repent, they should seek Him....they do not want to however as they love sin more than God, or His truth. They are without excuse:wavey::wavey:

You are right as far as identifying the quote in Romans. But you haven't harmonized that quote with the rest of Scripture yet.

If "None does good," for example, then why does Paul command them to seek God, find God, Repent, etc.

Why does the inspired record say about idolatrous Abimilech:

Gen 26:28 And they said, We saw certainly that the LORD was with thee: and we said, Let there be now an oath betwixt us, even betwixt us and thee, and let us make a covenant with thee;
Gen 26:29 That thou wilt do us no hurt, as we have not touched thee, and as we have done unto thee nothing but good,
Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Moses writes that Abimilech, an idolatrous king, testifies to Isaac, that "he has done nothing but GOOD to Isaac and his people."
Is God lying in his own record of Israel? Yes or no?

Why does the Lord call Cornelius devout and just before he wasn't even saved?

Look what Ezra said:
The hand of our God is upon all them for good that seek him; but his power and his wrath is against all them that forsake him (Ezra 8:22)

The invitation of Christ has always been an appeal to the will:
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

 

[savedbymercy]

Act 17:26-31 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; (27) That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: (28) For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. (29) Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. (30) And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: (31) Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

I agree with that passage. It says nothing about the natural man being able to seek God, because if it did , it would be in direct contradiction to Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Now if you show me a scripture that says, there are some that understandeth and some that do seek after God, I would need to explain an contradiction ! Go see if you can find such verses !

 

[DHK]

I agree with that passage. It says nothing about the natural man being able to seek God, because if it did , it would be in direct contradiction to Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Now if you show me a scripture that says, there are some that understandeth and some that do seek after God, I would need to explain an contradiction ! Go see if you can find such verses !

Please read the passage again. As I posted previously the passage says a whole lot about seeking God, and other things that these pagans must do:

Paul is speaking from Mars' Hill to a purely pagan audience who worship idols. They do not know Christ, neither have they heard the gospel. This is the longest gospel message to the unsaved in the NT. Yet, look at the points Paul makes to this pagan, idol-worshiping people.
1. They need to seek God.
2. They need to "feel" or reach out for Him.
3. They need to find God.
4. He assures them that God is close to them so that all of the above is possible for them.
5. Then Paul tells them that NOW God commands them to repent.
--Note that repentance and faith go together in the NT. God will not give them the ability to repent or to believe. They must do this on their own.
All of the above Paul tells them they must do on their own.

Now harmonize the Scriptures.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

Please read the passage again.

I have read that passage plenty of times, perhaps more than you ever will. The Truth of it remains, None Seek after the True God or Understand Him Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

[PreachTony]

I have read that passage plenty of times, perhaps more than you ever will. The Truth of it remains, None Seek after the True God or Understand Him Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Is this another case of one verse negating other verses?

23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Now, sbm, I know you have some odd tendency to deny the existence of the word IF, which might be tripping you up here. But DHK makes a good point. Paul is speaking to a pagan people in the midst of their idolatrous altars, but he is relating to them that God has unified all men through grace. He is telling these pagans that it is incumbent upon them to seek God. If every word of the Bible is divinely inspired, and Paul is preaching to them, then why would Paul lie to them if it was impossible for them to seek God?

I know you have this ridiculous standard that a verse must match your preconceived notion verbatim before you will accept it, but the Bible does not work that way.

 

[savedbymercy]

When scripture declares that none is good or doeth good like in Rom 3:12 it's not speaking of natural good, like none is a good natural father to his children, or there are no naturally good mothers and so forth, but it's meaning is spiritual, man by nature cannot do anything spiritually good towards God, a relationship with Him ! Man is simply by nature dead to God spiritually and can't please Him !

 

[BobRyan]

If the lost cannot please God, then they Cannot believe ! This confirms that those that are lost have the Gospel hid from them 2 Cor 4:3-4 !

You propose a "close your eyes to the Bible" solution of the form

So then God "Came to His OWN and His own were of course saved and already forgiven - and receive Him". that "pleases Him"

God "did not lament or ask what MORE could I have done" - that lament would not please Him.

God "So loved the World and so He so saved the World, the the whole world Pleases God - end of story". That pleases Him.

==============================================

Instead of those fictions we find --


Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRyan


[FONT=&quot]“He CAME to HIS OWN and [/FONT][FONT=&quot]His OWN received Him not[/FONT][FONT=&quot]” John 1[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Matt 23[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke 7[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]28 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God’s justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]29 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Is 5:4[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Response: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Well the Calvinist would have an answer for God's question on that one. An answer contrived via “extreme inference” in places like Deut 5:29. Calvinism would inform the world – and God Himself of just what God did to cause the lamentable result that God is complaining about in t[FONT=&quot]he verse above[/FONT].

[FONT=&quot]I[FONT=&quot]n Calvinism i[/FONT][/FONT]f the result is wrong if it is to be lamented if the question [FONT=&quot]is to be asked "What more could have been done" w[FONT=&quot]ell [/FONT][/FONT]then Calvinism argues He [FONT=&quot]knows exactly what He failed to do [/FONT] - [FONT=&quot]in effect [/FONT] sabotaging His own plans - the cause of His own "lament" - or at the very least - being forgetful to "do the necessary" as the saying goes in India.

[FONT=&quot]================================

[FONT=&quot]God's "lament" does not ask "what more could the LOST have done that they have not done" because He knows[FONT=&quot] exactly wh[FONT=&quot]at THEY could h[FONT=&quot]av[FONT=&quot]e [FONT=&quot]done.

[FONT=&quot]Rather [FONT=&quot]G[FONT=&quot]od asks[FONT=&quot] 'What MOR[FONT=&quot]E could I HAVE done that I did not do?" -- the very ques[FONT=&quot]tion [FONT=&quot]all Calvinists claim to have the answer for.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

=======================

 

[BobRyan]

Seeking God is a element of Faith Heb 11:6 but yet scripture states of man by nature this Rom 3:11 that is right none, zero seeks after God ! Also the same greek word for seek in Heb 11:6 is also used in Rom 3:11 ! Now this does not say that man does not seek after a god, he does, but it's a false god of his own natural understanding and not the True and Living God !

You have created a straw man.

The Arminian argument is that the supernatural "drawing of ALL" John 12:32 enables ALL to choose and to receive Christ.

there is enough "supernatural" in God's claim to "Draw ALL" to meet every single Calvinist objection regarding the depravity of man.

 

[savedbymercy]

You have created a straw man.

The Arminian argument is that the supernatural "drawing of ALL" John 12:32 enables ALL to choose and to receive Christ.

there is enough "supernatural" in God's claim to "Draw ALL" to meet every single Calvinist objection regarding the depravity of man.

Those in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8 so they cannot hear and believe in Christ with Faith, because Faith pleases God Heb 11:6 and they that are in the flesh cannot please God !

 

[BobRyan]

Those in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8 so they cannot hear and believe in Christ with Faith, because Faith pleases God Heb 11:6 and they that are in the flesh cannot please God !

you build your solution on the extreme inference of your Bible eisegesis

Your fictions lead to logical conclusions at odds with the Bible ---



You propose a "close your eyes to the Bible" solution of the form

So then God "Came to His OWN and His own were of course saved and already forgiven - and receive Him". that "pleases Him"

God "did not lament or ask what MORE could I have done" - that lament would not please Him.

God "So loved the World and so He so saved the World, the the whole world Pleases God - end of story". That pleases Him.

==============================================

That is why on that other thread - you propose taking the Words of Christ in Luke 7 and Matt 23 and tossing them out the window along with 34 books of the Bible ... you simply have no way to reconcile your extreme inference and exegesis with the text of the Bible -- so in your view --- the Bible must go.. as we saw here -- #24

in Christ,
Bob

 

[savedbymercy]

you build your solution on the extreme inference of your Bible eisegesis

Your fictions lead to logical conclusions at odds with the Bible ---



You propose a "close your eyes to the Bible" solution of the form

So then God "Came to His OWN and His own were of course saved and already forgiven - and receive Him". that "pleases Him"

God "did not lament or ask what MORE could I have done" - that lament would not please Him.

God "So loved the World and so He so saved the World, the the whole world Pleases God - end of story". That pleases Him.

==============================================

That is why on that other thread - you propose taking the Words of Christ in Luke 7 and Matt 23 and tossing them out the window along with 34 books of the Bible ... you simply have no way to reconcile your extreme inference and exegesis with the text of the Bible -- so in your view --- the Bible must go..

in Christ,
Bob

You can quote scriptures all you want, you don't believe them or understand them ! Those in the flesh cannot please God, nor can the lost believe the Gospel because it's hidden from them 2 Cor 4:3-4 !

 

[DHK]

When scripture declares that none is good or doeth good like in Rom 3:12 it's not speaking of natural good, like none is a good natural father to his children, or there are no naturally good mothers and so forth, but it's meaning is spiritual, man by nature cannot do anything spiritually good towards God, a relationship with Him ! Man is simply by nature dead to God spiritually and can't please Him !

Well that is a step in the right direction.

With that in mind we still need to consider these two verses:

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Is it not spiritually good for them to "seek the Lord...and find him," as they are commanded to do here. I would think that it is a very good thing for them to do, and a very spiritually good thing that will, of their own volition, lead them to Christ.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

 

[savedbymercy]

Well that is a step in the right direction.

With that in mind we still need to consider these two verses:

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Is it not spiritually good for them to "seek the Lord...and find him," as they are commanded to do here. I would think that it is a very good thing for them to do, and a very spiritually good thing that will, of their own volition, lead them to Christ.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

Man in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8 and doesn't seek God, does not do good spiritually Rom 3:11-12 !

 

[savedbymercy]

Well that is a step in the right direction.

With that in mind we still need to consider these two verses:

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Is it not spiritually good for them to "seek the Lord...and find him," as they are commanded to do here. I would think that it is a very good thing for them to do, and a very spiritually good thing that will, of their own volition, lead them to Christ.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

One cannot hear God's words unless they are of God John 8:47 and if not, they cannot hear spiritually John 8:43 ! What does cannot mean ? I already showed you, you evaded it !

 

[DHK]

Man in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8 and doesn't seek God, does not do good spiritually Rom 3:11-12 !

IOW, Paul is telling the Athenians a bunch of lies. It is all a fairy tale. Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit he is lying to the Athenians.
Are you charging God with lies?

 

[savedbymercy]

IOW, Paul is telling the Athenians a bunch of lies. It is all a fairy tale. Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit he is lying to the Athenians.
Are you charging God with lies?

Paul preached the Truth, where have I said Paul spoke lies ? There you go with your famous slanderous misrepresenting me ! You do that a lot !