Faith Received

[preacher4truth]

Ok. And you are allowed to express that view. Sometimes a unintended "tone" can be read into response. It becomes personal when we stop speaking about the facts/topics and about the person. My post was addressing your facts and the apparent tone of the OP and your responses to me: (i.e. "please." "Spare me." "Nice try." "I can't help you any further." etc)

Your OP made the accusation about Arminians, so the burden is on you to support your accusation.

Zero scholars believe what you said in your OP. That is all I'm saying. If you can provide any quotes to support your accusation then your could debate that claim and any here who might support it, otherwise I think this is just a straw-man fallacy. And, no, calling you argument a "straw-man" is not personal.

That is fine, now just back up that charge with some facts. I've provided a quote from Arminius himself debunking the concept that "Arminians don't believe faith is from God." Now, can you support your claims?

Please and spare me is much better than beligerent "blatantly false."

Plus, since I am what you would call calvinistic, I have to tread a little softer than your arminian like crew, as I receive a harsher punishment than they, one with infractions, while your theological like, none, stemming from your bias, right?

Quoting Arminius doesn't prove all Arminians believe faith a gift anymore than quoting the Remonstrance, where Tulip came in and used as a defence proves all Calvinists 5 point.

Calvin doesn't perfectly represent all Calvinists. The same with Arminius.

 

[convicted1]

There is no Scripture to say that faith is a gift given to unregenerate man. Besides it does not make sense. Then Man believes God with God's faith? What sense does that make? The Bible itself declares that faith comes from the hearing of the Word of God. The source of our faith is hearing the Word of God. It is not given as a gift. The gift of God is salvation; eternal life. (Rom.6:23; Eph.2:8,9).
The only time faith is given as a gift is when it is given to the saved as a spiritual gift or as fruit of the spirit. We all have the ability to believe. That is an ability that God gave to each and every one of us. It differentiates us from the animal kingdom. We are made in God's own image and likeness.

Uh, Brother, here are some scriptures to "chew" on:

Mark 5:25 And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,

26 And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,

27 When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.

28 For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.

29 And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.

34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

Now, "her" faith, was given by God. She could not have known that this was Jesus by merely looking at Him, and even by seeing the miracles He had performed. Many others had seen His miracles, yet still did not believe. God did this(blind their eyes), so that Jesus would be crucifed, therefore, fulfilling the scriptures concerning His death, burial, and resurrection. After Jesus died, their eyes were opened to see. But, getting back to the OP, faith is a God given gift.

Mark 9:17 And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;

18 And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.

19 He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.

20 And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.

21 And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.

22 And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.

23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.[/U]

24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Rom. 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.


Now, the times in the bible when it says "your faith", this is our faith after God gives it to us. Not all will take advantage of it though. Those who do take advantage of this gift of faith do so according to this passage:

2 Pet. 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Faith gets stronger through prayer, meditation, studying, seeking His face, etc. When God showed me that I was a sinner, He gave me the faith to believe what He was saying was true, but I didn't want to be saved at that time. That faith was still there, because He called me for years, but in my rebellion, I didn't want to serve Him. When I started listening to what He was saying, and then began calling out, that faith was there, and helped me to understand what He was saying in His Word was true.

Now, here is what happens when people "squander" their gift of faith:

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

So, according to what His Word has shown me, faith comes from God....or at least that is how I see it.

i am I AM's!!

Willis

 

[convicted1]

I received faith from God through His word and in Him I trust will finished in me with what He started. I will not get emotional and let men try to convince me because I trusted God to declare His work that faith came from me. I had nothing before God's word of life.

(((((AMEN)))))!!! Concise, precise, and to the point!! :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs: Woot!!

 

[psalms109:31]

Faith

Is the difference between non-cal and cal is how they see the faith given by God or that one thinks it comes from them and the other from God?

The faith I received was to trust, believe in Jesus and be saved or not and continue to condemnation. The offer was made many times.

Then the preacher went to great detail of what Jesus had to go through for my sins. The description of the cat and nine tails tearing flesh from His body knowing and visualizing what Jesus did for me and I cried and went to give my life to Jesus.

Isaiah 53:5
But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

 

[preacher4truth]

Uh, Brother, here are some scriptures to "chew" on:

Mark 5:25 And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,

26 And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,

27 When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.

28 For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.

29 And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.

34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

Now, "her" faith, was given by God. She could not have known that this was Jesus by merely looking at Him, and even by seeing the miracles He had performed. Many others had seen His miracles, yet still did not believe. God did this(blind their eyes), so that Jesus would be crucifed, therefore, fulfilling the scriptures concerning His death, burial, and resurrection. After Jesus died, their eyes were opened to see. But, getting back to the OP, faith is a God given gift.

Mark 9:17 And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;

18 And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.

19 He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.

20 And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.

21 And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.

22 And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.

23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.[/U]

24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Rom. 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.


Now, the times in the bible when it says "your faith", this is our faith after God gives it to us. Not all will take advantage of it though. Those who do take advantage of this gift of faith do so according to this passage:

2 Pet. 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Faith gets stronger through prayer, meditation, studying, seeking His face, etc. When God showed me that I was a sinner, He gave me the faith to believe what He was saying was true, but I didn't want to be saved at that time. That faith was still there, because He called me for years, but in my rebellion, I didn't want to serve Him. When I started listening to what He was saying, and then began calling out, that faith was there, and helped me to understand what He was saying in His Word was true.

Now, here is what happens when people "squander" their gift of faith:

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

So, according to what His Word has shown me, faith comes from God....or at least that is how I see it.

i am I AM's!!

Willis

Good Scriptures and points. God's Word brings life, and it brought this dead soul to life, via bestowing Grace and Mercy, repentance, faith, justification, sanctification, salvation, and some day glorification. None of this came from me, it is All Him.

 

[convicted1]

Good Scriptures and points. God's Word brings life, and it brought this dead soul to life, via bestowing Grace and Mercy, repentance, faith, justification, sanctification, salvation, and some day glorification. None of this came from me, it is All Him.

I agree Brother, but repentance, I kinda wonder about. All the others you mentioned here, I am in 100% agreement with. Jesus stated in Luke 13:3,5 "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish". So, I personally believe that when God shows us our lost state, that when we have the Godly sorrow set up, it leads us down the trail of repentance. Now, if we fail to believe what God is telling us, this Godly sorrow will not set up. If we fail to repent of being a sinner, we will die lost. So, part of me believes that repentance comes from us....but I could be wrong. Help a Brother out here, okay??

If this could cause a "derail", please start anutter thread about repentance, and where does it come from....I don't want to derail this one.

 

[convicted1]

Here's another verse that I think will support that faith comes from God:

Isaiah 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Jesus, when He came in the flesh, looked just like any other human. There was nothing about His appearance that "gave off" that He was/is the Son of God. They had to see Him down on the inside, and this could not be "seen" with the natural eyes, but by God revealling Him to those people around Him.

 

[psalms109:31]

I agree Brother, but repentance, I kinda wonder about. All the others you mentioned here, I am in 100% agreement with. Jesus stated in Luke 13:3,5 "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish". So, I personally believe that when God shows us our lost state, that when we have the Godly sorrow set up, it leads us down the trail of repentance. Now, if we fail to believe what God is telling us, this Godly sorrow will not set up. If we fail to repent of being a sinner, we will die lost. So, part of me believes that repentance comes from us....but I could be wrong. Help a Brother out here, okay??

If this could cause a "derail", please start anutter thread about repentance, and where does it come from....I don't want to derail this one.

I would love to hear myself more of this, but the last couple of threads got messy and closed

 

[preacher4truth]

I agree Brother, but repentance, I kinda wonder about. All the others you mentioned here, I am in 100% agreement with. Jesus stated in Luke 13:3,5 "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish". So, I personally believe that when God shows us our lost state, that when we have the Godly sorrow set up, it leads us down the trail of repentance. Now, if we fail to believe what God is telling us, this Godly sorrow will not set up. If we fail to repent of being a sinner, we will die lost. So, part of me believes that repentance comes from us....but I could be wrong. Help a Brother out here, okay??

If this could cause a "derail", please start anutter thread about repentance, and where does it come from....I don't want to derail this one.

Look in Acts 11:18... granted repentance. Look in your KJV if you have one, it is expressed elsewhere.

Romans 2:4 also suggests this too. This is another reason I say God does all of it, He reaches into our lives and saves us, we recognize it and we are overwhelmed and praise Him. I'm sure people can still go to heaven without believing repentance a gift. :smilewinkgrin:

There are more verses but I'm about through for a day.

- Blessings

 

[quantumfaith]

My apologies then. My intent was to say that I didn't say anything publicly directed toward you. I thought that would have been understood. That's why I didn't use your name. I thought it would be something that we all could use. I even from time to time fail to give my beliefs in a gentle spirit to those that disagree with me.

And per you pm, no I'm not going to say I "blatantly" lied when that's not what I did. If you can't understand that, I'm sorry, but that's your problem. As for me, I'm going to drop the issue.

jbh, I learned several months back not to PM preacherfortruth, as almost immediately upon messaging him he was sharing it and whining about it in the open forum. So now when I respond to him, either intentionally "sniping" with him, or genuinely sharing, I do so in open forum. The concept of "private" message eludes him.

 

[freeatlast]

Certainly faith as well as repentance is part of the gift of God under God's grace, but not seperate from the one exercising it. God and man work together in this area and salvation is born. So we who are saved cannot claim it to be our faith alone nor can we claim that the faith unto salvation is simply and totally a work of God. God is not violating the volition of man to save him, but rather works within man's volition supplying him what he lacks so as it can be applied accoring to man's will.

 

[preacher4truth]

jbh, I learned several months back not to PM preacherfortruth, as almost immediately upon messaging him he was sharing it and whining about it in the open forum. So now when I respond to him, either intentionally "sniping" with him, or genuinely sharing, I do so in open forum. The concept of "private" message eludes him.

PM is a venue reserved for some who don't have the boldness to say the same in a public forum. It's comparable to the internet and real life; those who would otherwise duck and run in public can be tough behind the monitor.

Thus, yes! I taught you a lesson about saying things in PM you wouldn't dare say in public forum, neither would you say them outside of the internet in real public life. For a minute, you are correct. Congrats! :thumbsup:

 

[quantumfaith]

PM is a venue reserved for some who don't have the boldness to say the same in a public forum. It's comparable to the internet and real life; those who would otherwise duck and run in public can be tough behind the monitor.

Thus, yes! I taught you a lesson about saying things in PM you wouldn't dare say in public forum, neither would you say them outside of the internet in real public life. For a minute, you are correct. Congrats! :thumbsup:

Again you display your lack of social grace etc. YOU taught me nothing except, from that point forward, I do address you HERE and not in PM for the very that very reason.

 

[preacher4truth]

Again you display your lack of social grace etc. YOU taught me nothing except, from that point forward, I do address you HERE and not in PM for the very that very reason.

A lesson in grace you try to bring as you came on here solely for the purpose to try and stir things up between jbh28 and myself again? Pure malice, pure work of the flesh. By the way, jbh28 and I actually settled things in a great way in PM, but you? You have to meddle, and neither can you be a forgiving soul seeking unity nor reconciliation. But thats you, right? You want none of that, correct?

This what you do is simply and sadly called seeking to cause division between the brethren. There are Scriptures for this. But, that is your purpose and plan for the day. I'd say, not a good start. Why not walk with God instead?

Ah, the one who doggs my steps constantly on BB and indeed did gets taught a lesson by myself not to come running to me in PM saying things you wouldn't say in public. You learned your lesson, as I taught it to you well, which is obvious by what you say.

Don't be someone different in public than in private.

 

[quantumfaith]

A lesson in grace you try to bring as you came on here solely for the purpose to try and stir things up between jbh28 and myself again? Pure malice, pure work of the flesh. By the way, jbh28 and I actually settled things in a great way in PM, but you? You have to meddle, and neither can you be a forgiving soul seeking unity nor reconciliation. But thats you, right? You want none of that, correct?

This what you do is simply and sadly called seeking to cause division between the brethren. There are Scriptures for this. But, that is your purpose and plan for the day. I'd say, not a good start. Why not walk with God instead?

Ah, the one who doggs my steps constantly on BB and indeed did gets taught a lesson by myself not to come running to me in PM saying things you wouldn't say in public. You learned your lesson, as I taught it to you well, which is obvious by what you say.

Don't be someone different in public than in private.

I will say to you very much what I said you then, you are being disengenous here and speaking falsehoods. I am not different publicly or privately. That is utterly false. I have no "desire" to cause division, you do so much more in the manner of which you are patently disrespectful and dismissive. You go ahead and chime in the last word, for now, my last words. But I will continue to post when you disrespect someone for no good reason.

 

[preacher4truth]

I will say to you very much what I said you then, you are being disengenous here and speaking falsehoods. I am not different publicly or privately. That is utterly false. I have no "desire" to cause division, you do so much more in the manner of which you are patently disrespectful and dismissive. You go ahead and chime in the last word, for now, my last words. But I will continue to post when you disrespect someone for no good reason.

You learned your lesson, plainly and simply.

You act one way online in public, but want to come across another privately? Don't bother.

That's why you won't engage. I exposed you for being two persons; one person in public, another in private. I can't stand falsehoods and hypocrisy, so I taught you a lesson. I'm sure your face turned red, and it should have.

You have no desire to cause division, yet, look at you and what you've done here. No, you'll continue to stir the pot and cause division with drive bys.

You just have to jump in and help facilitate arguments in hopes of making enemies out of two persons. Jbh28 and I reconciled this thing, in a Christian way.

Obviously you are still upset and to reconcile is not within your heart. You harbor within it unforgiveness. What a shame, a man so smart, yet, is missing so much spiritually by remaining in your current state of bitterness toward me. Thus, your unforgiveness and bitter spirit drive your postings here.

I don't need any of your schism inducing, division propagating posts.

 

[JesusFan]

I'm sorry brother, but this is just blatantly false information. You can read Arminius' actual teaching on the subject of faith HERE.

I'm a non-Calvinist and have stated on this board numerous times that faith comes from God. We just disagree as to the effectuality of the method/means it is given.

You may be debating a straw-man brother?

So you do affirm that ALL of us are unable to come to God "in ourselves" and that we are also born depraved, that unless God enables us to know Him in a saving sense, will stay spiritually deaf/dumb/blind?

 

[JesusFan]

Show me in the Bible where God gives faith to the unsaved. He does not.
Look at the verse you posted.

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: (2 Peter 1:1)
--The obtained like precious faith through the righteousness of God...
Peter is speaking to believers. Faith is given only to believers.
Spiritual gifts are only given to believers; not to the unregenerate.

What is the context?
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; (Romans 12:6)
--Gifts, spiritual gifts that are given to the members of the body of Christ:

For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. (Romans 12:4-5)
--The gift of faith is given to the saved, not the unsaved; God does not give faith to the unregenerate.

I never denied this. You don't read carefully. God does not give spiritual gifts as faith to the unsaved. One must put their own faith in Christ, not God's faith in God.

That is right; it is given to believers, not unbelievers.

You are very confused. You should study on this matter before you post.
God does not give the unregenerate spiritual gifts; plain and simple.

You have not provided one Scripture that says anything contrary to what I believe; so what is your problem?

I have already given you dozens in another thread. You never answered them then. Why would I expect you to answer them now? The Bible clearly teaches that salvation is by faith alone.
Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God (Rom.5:1)

Where does the Scripture back up that God gives the unregenerate faith. Scripture please!!!

Where does an infant get faith from? The faith to trust his parents rather than a stranger? Please answer. For Jesus said unless you have faith as a little child you cannot enter into the Kingdom of heaven.

The difference between man and animals is that man is made in God's own image and likeness. He created him with a will to choose between good and evil; to choose whether to reject Christ or receive him. That is how God created us. In his sovereignty he gave us the free will to choose. I gave myself nothing. God gave me everything I am. Adam gave me a depraved nature, as he did you. That is the source of your personal attacks. It is also the source of your arrogance and obstinacy to study these things out before posting on them.

You haven't provided even one verse of Scripture.

God does not grant faith to the unregenerate. You have not shown that to anyone.

Where does it say that in the Bible. You need to study it before commenting on it.

Go and study your Bible. You obviously don't know what you are talking about.

I have given you enough to answer for tonight. Answer the post. Study your Bible first. See how well you can do this time.

Just a simple question...
IF we are born both unable to come to God in ourselves and are born spiritual dead in sins and trespasses...

just where did your faith actually come from as a basis then?

Were you "born" with it as part of being in image of God?
did you 'reason" your way to receiving jesus?
Where did you get it from, and when did you?

 

[psalms109:31]

Spirit and life

The words of Jesus is Spirit and life and His words enables us to go in the direction by the faith God gives us provides. We can't go if we reject the very word that gives life, for then the life is no longer there. So then we are stuck in the other direction where we been headed destruction, provided by the word that also provides life.

 

[preacher4truth]

Just a simple question...
IF we are born both unable to come to God in ourselves and are born spiritual dead in sins and trespasses...

just where did your faith actually come from as a basis then?

Were you "born" with it as part of being in image of God?
did you 'reason" your way to receiving jesus?
Where did you get it from, and when did you?

You express my point and question to him exactly.

This is why I say he has yet to answer. Not to drum up arguing, just to get that answered would suffice.

That's what the OP addresses, since you didn't get it from God, and we all know everything comes from Him that we receive, where in the world did you get it then? But I suppose some do not think they have received everything from God.

The Scriptures clearly teach that believing faith comes from God alone. Romans 10:17 for instance.