Faith vs Faith and Repentance

[JD731]

It is often stated that faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin. Are we saved by faith then, or by a coin?

Try this quote on for size and your question might be answered;

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

No one who has not broken the moral law of God and sensed his guilt will repent and come to God through faith in Christ. Why would they? They would not be guilty and condemned and therefore would not need his salvation.

 

[DaveXR650]

Thanks @KenH . That reminds me of Philippians chapter 3. "I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus". There seems to be an acknowledgement of being "apprehended" by Christ, yet no shyness about claiming that he has "suffered the loss of all things and do count them but dung that I may win Christ and be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith".

I just don't see any conflict with the idea that salvation is all of God while at the same time to say "I believe or I follow after or I have suffered the loss of all things" should not be worthy of rebuke.

 

[KenH]

I just don't see any conflict with the idea that salvation is all of God while at the same time to say "I believe or I follow after or I have suffered the loss of all things" should not be worthy of rebuke.

The issue is about the reason why one believes and repents. Either man does it or God does it. There is no God does 99% and man does 1%. God does 100% of the saving or a man is not saved at all. Is the sinner looking to God to have imputed his sins to Christ and to have imputed Christ's perfect righteousness to him and has his eyes opened to see Christ as The Lord his Righteousness; or is the sinner look to something in himself or done by him for salvation - "I repented" or "I believed" or "I was baptized" or "I was sincere" or "I tried to be a good person", etc.? The former is God saving a sinner without any merit in the sinner. The latter is a sinner attempting to save himself through some merit of his own.

 

[Alan Gross]

Try this quote on for size and your question might be answered;

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

No one who has not broken the moral law of God and sensed his guilt will repent and come to God through faith in Christ. Why would they? They would not be guilty and condemned and therefore would not need his salvation.

That REALLY IS a WINNER!

 

[Alan Gross]

The issue is about the reason why one believes and repents. Either man does it or God does it. There is no God does 99% and man does 1%. God does 100% of the saving or a man is not saved at all. Is the sinner looking to God to have imputed his sins to Christ and to have imputed Christ's perfect righteousness to him and has his eyes opened to see Christ as The Lord his Righteousness; or is the sinner look to something in himself or done by him for salvation - "I repented" or "I believed" or "I was baptized" or "I was sincere" or "I tried to be a good person", etc.? The former is God saving a sinner without any merit in the sinner. The latter is a sinner attempting to save himself through some merit of his own.

ANND Another WINNER!

 

[AVL1984]

If ever, is a major concern.

Presumed "Profession of Faith", or "belief", without REGENERATION,
is the subject of, "Decisionsional False Profession of Faith",
which the OP is asking about.

For my part, I say that there is ALWAYS
SPIRITUALLY WROUGHT CONVICTION of SIN,
then REPENTANCE and (the SPIRITUAL ABILITY to have) FAITH.

"...Therefore by the deeds of the law
there shall no flesh be justified in his sight:
for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Both being The Activity of God in The Effectual Calling,
prior to, "Belief", or "Faith", that is purely the result of fleshly consent,
or many other things, without REGENERATION.

According to the False Doctrine of Decisionism,
the decisive factor in the Conversion of a sinner
is the sinner's decision and cooperation,
not God's Decision and Regeneration.


Decisionism; i.e., MENTAL / PHYSICAL CONSENT
to "trust", "believe",
"have faith", have "true trust",
"praying the sinner's prayer"
"making "a decision",
or signing a "Commitment Card"

"calling upon The Name of The Lord",
(without CONVICTION or REPENTANCE)
"Making Jesus The Lord of your life",
"not wanting to be 'Left Behind',
"believing on The Lord Jesus Christ"
without SPIRITUAL CONVICTION and SPIRITUAL REPENTANCE
LEAVES LOST SOULS, LOST.

CONSENT of SIN without CONVICTION and REPENTANCE
is without REGENERATION and LEAVES LOST SOULS, LOST.

The definition of "dead" in Ephesians 2:1,

1"And you hath he quickened,
who were dead in trespasses and sins;"

is Ephesians 2:2,3, but also Ephesians 2:12;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ,

being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel,

and strangers from the covenants of promise,

having no hope,

and without God in the world:"

This describes the SPIRITUALLY DEAD,
of whom, also, are "Atheists".


see: Decisionism: without God, or REGENERATION.

Decisionism: without God, or REGENERATION.

Do you ever think for and speak using your own words instead of posting long diatribes from others? Doesn't seem like it. So, these are your beliefs following others thoughts....Okay...I see.

 

[Alan Gross]

Do you ever think for and speak using your own words instead of posting long diatribes from others? Doesn't seem like it. So, these are your beliefs following others thoughts....Okay...I see.

Every word of this is mine,
except the scriptures,
and they are from the Bible.

 

[DaveXR650]

The issue is about the reason why one believes and repents. Either man does it or God does it. There is no God does 99% and man does 1%. God does 100% of the saving or a man is not saved at all. Is the sinner looking to God to have imputed his sins to Christ and to have imputed Christ's perfect righteousness to him and has his eyes opened to see Christ as The Lord his Righteousness; or is the sinner look to something in himself or done by him for salvation -

This is where I think there is confusion. As a strict Calvinist, if you are saying that man does 0% to merit his salvation I agree. And if you are saying that it is God through the work of the Holy Spirit that is 100% initiating the work in a persons heart that leads to repentance and faith I agree.

And when you list "I was baptized, I was sincere, or tried to be good" as a sinner attempting to save himself I agree. But you also listed "I repented " and "I believed" in that same category. Even though they came through the work of the Holy Spirit on the person do you really want to say that that is trying to add works to salvation? And even in light of the fact that I just quoted Paul in Philippians chapter 3 as saying exactly the same thing.

There is a difference between contributing to your salvation and being active in your salvation. YOU have to believe and repent, not God. At it's most precise basic level, saving faith is by it's own definition a ceasing from working, a reaching out for a gift from God, and a taking God at his word - which is the exact opposite of works. But yes indeed, you have to do it.

 

[KenH]

YOU have to believe and repent, not God.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.

Acts of the Apostles 11:18 Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.

(emphasis mine)

 

[DaveXR650]

@KenH . Amen to those verses above. I am just saying that there are Calvinist preachers like Spencer above and Horatious Bonar, who urge men to "repent now, immediately, and believe the gospel". That doesn't take anything away from God's glory. I don't even think that left as we are in our natural state anyone will do that without the direct involvement of the Holy Spirit. But I am saying that faith is what the person does and someone who says "I believed the gospel" should not be corrected for saying that, unless they are viewing it as a virtuous contribution to their salvation.

 

[KenH]

@KenH . Amen to those verses above. I am just saying that there are Calvinist preachers like Spencer above and Horatious Bonar, who urge men to "repent now, immediately, and believe the gospel". That doesn't take anything away from God's glory. I don't even think that left as we are in our natural state anyone will do that without the direct involvement of the Holy Spirit. But I am saying that faith is what the person does and someone who says "I believed the gospel" should not be corrected for saying that, unless they are viewing it as a virtuous contribution to their salvation.

Agreed. I am not familiar with Spencer but I definitely have great regard for Horatius Bonar.

But one must also be careful as there are lots of false gospels which condition salvation in some form or fashion on the sinner and not the finished work of Christ alone. There is no salvation in a false gospel.

 

[DaveXR650]

The main difference between us Ken is that you can't spell Spencer and I can't spell Horatius.

 

[KenH]

The main difference between us Ken is that you can't spell Spencer and I can't spell Horatius.

But I still had time to edit my mistake. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[AVL1984]

If REGENERATION is said to take place AFTER one "believes", etc.,
that gives the Glory to man.

This is not necessarily so. Again, this is YOUR belief/interpretation of the Scriptures based on other men's writings.

And there is no assurance REGENERATION has taken place at all.

Again, your belief/interpretation of scriptures.

Where do you think that so many Apostate, lost, church members,
Heretical, lost, preachers,
and Blasphemous Forum posters come from?
Where do YOU think they come from? And how do you judge who is a blasphemous forum poster here? I know very few.if any.

...

If REGENERATION is said to take place BEFORE one "believes", etc.,
that gives the Glory to GOD.

And, "SALVATION is of The LORD".
...
SEE: Can An Arminian Be OSAS?

"I'm glad you agree. Now, I believe the Arminian doctrine to have lended itself to WoF teachings (due to faith being innate ability, which has developed into a power source and the likes of Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen).

"Also this has brought us the neo-Pelagianism, easy-believism, Free Grace Theology, decisional salvation and much more error. I believe the errant foundation has led to errors on the 'other floors' of this system."

Goes to show you don't know much about the free will position. UGH

 

[Alan Gross]

Goes to show you don't know much about the free will position. UGH

Yes, it is, "flesh".

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning:
This thread will be closed no sooner than 1 am EST (Sun) / 10 pm PST (Sat)

 

[AVL1984]

Yes, it is, "flesh".

Yes, it is, "flesh".

That's your position and belief...too bad it's not fact.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning:
This thread will be closed no sooner than 1 am EST (Sun) / 10 pm PST (Sat)

This thread is closed