Faith

[Barry Johnson]

Its for all!

Is that 'all ' without distinction? Or is it for all kinds of men , kindred , nations, and tongues ?

 

[37818]

Take it up with the publisher of the RSV. They are the one that lists the 1611 Bible in their copyright.

The RV was to be the revision for the KJV and the RSV the revision for the ASV. The ASV was the American revision for the RV.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Only those whom God granted to them spiritual hearing!

But it says the ones who learned of the father . Thats clear. The pharisees had departed from the scriptures, no longer heard the voice of the shepard , this is christianity not hindu enlightenment?

 

[37818]

So who "unblinds" the minds so fallen men can "see" past the "foolishness" and a "natural man" can understand?
God! ... before one can Hear and Believe (their mind was blinded, the gospel was foolishness and they "cannot understand" according to scripture).

God does so with His living word, Hebrews 4:12. Everyone has faith from God, Rpmans 10:17-18, see Psalms 19.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Fair enough, but if the power is in the GOSPEL (the words), then why is it usually ineffective? As the verse you quoted said:

• the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness
• the preaching of the cross ... unto us which are saved it is the power of God

Why is God's power ineffective in some (most) cases?
Unless God does something to "transform" a "heart of stone" into "good soil" ...

[Eze 11:19] "And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit within them. And I will take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh,
[Eze 36:26] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
[Matthew 13:18-23] "Hear then the parable of the sower. "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil [one] comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. "The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no [firm] root in himself, but is [only] temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. "And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."
[Act 2:37] "Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart ..."
[Act 16:14] "[Lydia] was listening; and the Lord opened her heart ..."
[Rom 8:29-30] "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, ... and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified ..."
[Eph 1:5-6, 8-10, 18-19 ] according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. ... which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, [that is,] the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him ... [I pray that] the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. [These are] in accordance with the working of the strength of His might

I could go on, but we both know that you already have enough to reject and correct my interpretation according to your view of scripture (as it should be). Let us just hope that we can communicate and in testing one another ... let Iron sharpen Iron.

In Ezekiel its referring to Israel . We don't get a new heart of flesh replacing our hearts of stone causing us to walk in Jewish statutes and ordinances.

 

[AustinC]

I can't read and take that translation seriously lol , let's look at it properly.
21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Ok if you showed this verse to any person in the whole world that could read , they would say ' God is pleased to save those that believe.

There is nothing in your translation about faith. Interpret faith into that verse for me please.

If I read the whole verse I see that the world knew not God until someone preached to them, whereby God saves those who believe and it pleases God to do so.

Now, where is faith inserted? Is it before belief or after belief?

 

[Barry Johnson]

There is nothing in your translation about faith. Interpret faith into that verse for me please.

If I read the whole verse I see that the world knew not God until someone preached to them, whereby God saves those who believe and it pleases God to do so.

Now, where is faith inserted? Is it before belief or after belief?

Faith / believe / trust = same .

 

[atpollard]

Is that 'all ' without distinction? Or is it for all kinds of men , kindred , nations, and tongues ?

All whom God predestined.

 

[SGO]

When you ask?

So then faith cometh by hearing,
and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17

When the "ears" get spiritually dewaxed (by the Holy Spirit),
and a person is old enough to understand language.

 

[atpollard]

God does so with His living word, Hebrews 4:12.

We already established that some are “blinded” to the Gospel and most view the Word of God as “foolishness”. So that brings us back to the question of why God “does so” with His word in some and God “does not do so” with his word in others.

Whatever the answer, God must “DO” whatever God does before the hearer can understand and believe.

 

[Barry Johnson]

All whom God predestined.

Which would be all those that believed . Eph 1.5 After we believed. Notice in rom 8.23 when the Adoption is. No sinner is predestined. Read Eph 2 .11-12

 

[Barry Johnson]

When does God place faith into a human being?

Does the Bible tell us when faith enters the heart of a person? If so, what verses would they be?

Heb 11
1¶Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3¶Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4¶By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5¶By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
How on earth can it be reasonable to conclude God gave these men Faith and was then pleased with them for doing things by faith ? Why would God be pleased when its not them thats having Faith in God? It makes reading Hebrews 11 a farce . When someone is caught using Performance enhancing drugs in sport no one is pleased when the beat everyone. Its called cheating, because it wasn't their own strength that enabled them to do what they did .

 

[Yeshua1]

Fair enough, but if the power is in the GOSPEL (the words), then why is it usually ineffective? As the verse you quoted said:

• the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness
• the preaching of the cross ... unto us which are saved it is the power of God

Why is God's power ineffective in some (most) cases?
Unless God does something to "transform" a "heart of stone" into "good soil" ...

[Eze 11:19] "And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit within them. And I will take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh,
[Eze 36:26] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
[Matthew 13:18-23] "Hear then the parable of the sower. "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil [one] comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. "The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no [firm] root in himself, but is [only] temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. "And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."
[Act 2:37] "Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart ..."
[Act 16:14] "[Lydia] was listening; and the Lord opened her heart ..."
[Rom 8:29-30] "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, ... and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified ..."
[Eph 1:5-6, 8-10, 18-19 ] according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. ... which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, [that is,] the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him ... [I pray that] the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. [These are] in accordance with the working of the strength of His might

I could go on, but we both know that you already have enough to reject and correct my interpretation according to your view of scripture (as it should be). Let us just hope that we can communicate and in testing one another ... let Iron sharpen Iron.

The fault is never with the bible, but with us, but since God states that his word always accomplishes its intended work and will not return void, that he must seek to save some and n ot all!

 

[Barry Johnson]

So who "unblinds" the minds so fallen men can "see" past the "foolishness" and a "natural man" can understand?
God! ... before one can Hear and Believe (their mind was blinded, the gospel was foolishness and they "cannot understand" according to scripture).

The bible reveals that Satan has blinded the minds of people..Why is he doing this if they are born blind as you might say ?

 

[Barry Johnson]

The fault is never with the bible, but with us, but since God states that his word always accomplishes its intended work and will not return void, that he must seek to save some and n ot all!

Jesus came for Israel. But he died for the whole world . 2cor 5 .19

 

[Barry Johnson]

So who "unblinds" the minds so fallen men can "see" past the "foolishness" and a "natural man" can understand?
God! ... before one can Hear and Believe (their mind was blinded, the gospel was foolishness and they "cannot understand" according to scripture).

Thinking the Gospel is foolishness is not permanent. Many hear the Gospel several times Before believing. Sometimes over many years . Strange if irresistible grace be true ?

 

[atpollard]

Which would be all those that believed . Eph 1.5 After we believed. Notice in rom 8.23 when the Adoption is. No sinner is predestined. Read Eph 2 .11-12

I think you lost track of the point you were making. You were discussing who reads the ESV Bible and I joked “all who are predestined.” Are you now REALLY intending to argue that “all those that believe” read the ESV and no sinner does?

@AustinC would probably give you a shout of “AMEN!”

 

[atpollard]

The bible reveals that Satan has blinded the minds of people..Why is he doing this if they are born blind as you might say ?

Read 2 Corinthians 4 for yourself. Paul answers that particular question.

If the power to save is ALL in the words (and only in the words), they why do the same words save some and are rejected as foolishness by others?
Is God’s arm short?
Is man’s will stronger than the Gospel?

I say that God does “something” to enable men some men to understand the Gospel, otherwise no one would be saved.
I presented scripture supporting WHY I BELIEVE AS I DO.

You are free to believe whatever seems right to you.

 

[atpollard]

Thinking the Gospel is foolishness is not permanent. Many hear the Gospel several times Before believing. Sometimes over many years . Strange if irresistible grace be true ?

Verse?

 

[AustinC]

Faith / believe / trust = same .

The same greek word in the Bible is all of these?