Faith

[agedman]

Faith is either an innate human attribute which is capable of initiating redemption or it is a God given attribute used by God to repurpose a vessel to be useful to Him.

Personally, I consider the teaching that Christ is the author of all that pertains to redemption and that includes the faith. For this is the statement of Paul.

Some do not.

Personally, I consider the Father giving to the Son all those who He is to redeem, for this is the statement of John 6.

Some do not.

Would you abide in a human contrived faith or that faith given by the Redeemer to the sin filled one who will be drawn and sealed as redeemed?

This thread is dedicated to any who would desire to present their own thinking concerning origin of faith, and to show it consistent with the presentation found in all Scripture.

 

[37818]

There is faith, The Faith and within The Faith the fruit of the Spirit which includes faith and one of the gifts from the Spirit the gift of faith.
There is faith which comes from truth. The Faith, Jude 1:3. Faith as part of the fruit of the Spirit, Galatians 5:22-23. And the gift of faith, 1 Corinthians 12:9.

 

[AustinC]

There is faith, The Faith and within The Faith the fruit of the Spirit which includes faith and one of the gifts from the Spirit the gift of faith.
There is faith which comes from truth. The Faith, Jude 1:3. Faith as part of the fruit of the Spirit, Galatians 5:22-23. And the gift of faith, 1 Corinthians 12:9.

????
What, exactly are you trying to say? Please clarify. You capitalize Faith as though it's personified. What do you mean?

 

[37818]

Jude 1:3, ". . . Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. . . ."

 

[DaveXR650]

"Faith does not justify as a work, or as a moral act, or a piece of goodness, not as a gift of the Spirit, but simply because it is the bond between us and the Substitute, a very slender bond in one sense, but strong as iron in another. The work of Christ for us is the object of faith; the Spirit's work in us is that which produces this faith: it is out of the former, not of the latter; that our peace and justification come. Without the touch of the rod the water would not have gushed forth; yet it was the rock, and not the rod, that contained the water." From Horatius Bonar, "The Everlasting Righteousness. How Shall Man Be Just With God".

This is from chapter 7 "Not Faith but Christ". I love reading this guy, not just for the content, but he writes with such beauty.

 

[AustinC]

Jude 1:3, ". . . Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. . . ."

????
What, exactly are you trying to say? Please clarify. You capitalize Faith as though it's personified. What do you mean?

 

[tyndale1946]

"Faith does not justify as a work, or as a moral act, or a piece of goodness, not as a gift of the Spirit, but simply because it is the bond between us and the Substitute, a very slender bond in one sense, but strong as iron in another. The work of Christ for us is the object of faith; the Spirit's work in us is that which produces this faith: it is out of the former, not of the latter; that our peace and justification come. Without the touch of the rod the water would not have gushed forth; yet it was the rock, and not the rod, that contained the water." From Horatius Bonar, "The Everlasting Righteousness. How Shall Man Be Just With God".

This is from chapter 7 "Not Faith but Christ". I love reading this guy, not just for the content, but he writes with such beauty.

Thank you for that... I think I will take a look at it... Here is the link... Brother Glen

https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/bonar/The Everlasting Righteousness - Horatius Bonar.pdf

 

[SavedByGrace]

or it is a God given attribute used by God to repurpose a vessel to be useful to Him.

which is another way of saying that God has the "faith" for those whom He "gives" this faith to, and therefore God also does the "believing" for the elect, making them no more than mere machines! This is very much against what the Bible says, that, Saving Faith comes from the sinner "hearing" the Preaching of the Gospel, as Paul clearly says in Romans 10:17.

 

[agedman]

which is another way of saying that God has the "faith" for those whom He "gives" this faith to, and therefore God also does the "believing" for the elect, making them no more than mere machines! This is very much against what the Bible says, that, Saving Faith comes from the sinner "hearing" the Preaching of the Gospel, as Paul clearly says in Romans 10:17.

No, Romans 10:17 does not make that statement.

 

[AustinC]

which is another way of saying that God has the "faith" for those whom He "gives" this faith to, and therefore God also does the "believing" for the elect, making them no more than mere machines! This is very much against what the Bible says, that, Saving Faith comes from the sinner "hearing" the Preaching of the Gospel, as Paul clearly says in Romans 10:17.

Be honest.
What you wrote is your fleshly conclusion, not what God declares.
Did God make Saul (Paul) a mere machine when God broke into the prison of sin in which Paul lived and forcibly dragged him out of the prison in which Paul lived?
Of course not.
sbg, you utterly fail to grasp how bound in sin a human is. You fail to grasp the stronghold and prison that is both unescapable and impenetrable to anyone who is not God. You keep insisting that humans assist God in breaking out of sins prison. Even worse, you insist that God cannot break a person out of sins prison without the expressed permission of that person.
How horrible your teaching is. It slaps God in the face and tells God how terrible He is if He doesn't let humans decide whether He can actually save them. sbg, how deeply I pray your eyes will be opened to your terrible error.

 

[SavedByGrace]

No, Romans 10:17 does not make that statement.

here is the context

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

 

[agedman]

here is the context

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

I agree, but that isn’t what you stated in your post.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Be honest.
What you wrote is your fleshly conclusion, not what God declares.
Did God make Saul (Paul) a mere machine when God broke into the prison of sin in which Paul lived and forcibly dragged him out of the prison in which Paul lived?
Of course not.
sbg, you utterly fail to grasp how bound in sin a human is. You fail to grasp the stronghold and prison that is both unescapable and impenetrable to anyone who is not God. You keep insisting that humans assist God in breaking out of sins prison. Even worse, you insist that God cannot break a person out of sins prison without the expressed permission of that person.
How horrible your teaching is. It slaps God in the face and tells God how terrible He is if He doesn't let humans decide whether He can actually save them. sbg, how deeply I pray your eyes will be opened to your terrible error.

it is YOU and those who follow your "theology", who fail to grasp what the Bible says!

It is very simple, IF, as you argue that God GIVES saving faith to the elect, and ENABLES them to belive, then it can only mean that it is God, and not the elect person, Who believes and repents! Can you grasp this?

 

[SavedByGrace]

I agree, but that isn’t what you stated in your post.

show where I am wrong?

 

[kyredneck]

Saving Faith comes from the sinner "hearing" the Preaching of the Gospel

12 The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, Jehovah hath made even both of them. Prov 20

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see; and your ears, for they hear. Mt 13

15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
27 All things have been delivered unto me of my Father: and no one knoweth the Son, save the Father; neither doth any know the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son willeth to reveal him. Mt 11

 

[agedman]

show where I am wrong?

From your post: “This is very much against what the Bible says, that, Saving Faith comes from the sinner "hearing" the Preaching of the Gospel, as Paul clearly says in Romans 10:17.” (Bold my enhancement)

I pointed out it wasn’t what Romans 10:17 said, so you posted the context of the passage.

I agree with the Scripture statement, but not your statement for it disagrees with the Scripture statement you posted.

Look again at what you wrote and what the Scripture states and you will see the difference.

 

[SavedByGrace]

From your post: “This is very much against what the Bible says, that, Saving Faith comes from the sinner "hearing" the Preaching of the Gospel, as Paul clearly says in Romans 10:17.” (Bold my enhancement)

I pointed out it wasn’t what Romans 10:17 said, so you posted the context of the passage.

I agree with the Scripture statement, but not your statement for it disagrees with the Scripture statement you posted.

Look again at what you wrote and what the Scripture states and you will see the difference.

the context of Romans 10, is about sending preachers to preach the Gospel of salvation. If they are not sent, then the sinner will not be able to hear and repent and believe. When the sinner hears the Gospel Message preached, and is convicted by the Holy Spirit, and ACCEPT this Message, they are then saved. This is what the Bible says.

 

[agedman]

the context of Romans 10, is about sending preachers to preach the Gospel of salvation. If they are not sent, then the sinner will not be able to hear and repent and believe. When the sinner hears the Gospel Message preached, and is convicted by the Holy Spirit, and ACCEPT this Message, they are then saved. This is what the Bible says.

That is not what Romans 10 states.

 

[SavedByGrace]

That is not what Romans 10 states.

change your Bible version!

 

[agedman]

change your Bible version!

Did I not use that version you posted? I haven’t quoted any but your own work.

Do you read the words you posted and the words form the Scripture you posted and see the difference?