37818
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I will check. Specific to what Jesus said in Matthew, Luke or Mark?
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Fake Eschatology, continued from previous thread
- Thread starter robycop3
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this is my problem with "all prophesy" ... which really isn't all because we agree Jesus has yet to fulfill the one about Return.
... so ... if everything else, though, happened in 70 AD ... that 70th week lasts 2000 years?
And where are the tares? they are taken first.
Who were the Two Witnesses? Capitalized so it's not some abstract notion, it's a proper title of a person/persons.
Why has no one written about their exploits? Revelation 11 says the people rejoice when they're murdered. We have a lotta history which tells about murderers, but I've never read an account of these people being murdered.
Where was the "prepared place" the Rev 12 woman was taken for a time, times, and 1/2 a time? Kyredneck says this woman isn't Israel ... OK. But where'd she go for 3.5 years?
I'm not seeking to mudhole anyone ... but if this is the truth, then asking about it shouldn't be an offense.
OK ... perhaps I've misunderstood you. Didn't you tell me all Biblical prophesy was fulfilled in 70AD (and for accounting I'm disregarding the prophesy about Messiah's Second Coming)
What prophesies (beside the Second Coming) are outstanding? (accounting parlance)
OK ... but that was after 70AD. How did these beasts manifest after 70AD if all prophesy was fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD?
I'm trying hard to understand ... but I'm just not getting it.
Hopefully my Josephus book will arrive soon and I can read that history. Perhaps that will provide some illumination as to the basis for Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Joel, Zechariah ... Jesus ... Paul ... John .... having all completed.
Lodic
Well-Known Member
Actually, Josephus wrote of all the events that Jesus spoke of in the Olivet Discourse. So, my answer would have to be Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13. My apologies for the "broad" answer, but that's as narrow as I can make it.
Sorry for the delay ... have been ranchin (which means fixing my messups and cattle's curiosities.)
Rev 16:3 tells of all the life in the sea dying.
My apologies, I got cross wired this use of "sea" with the borders of Israel being the Mediterranean ... the Great Sea from Numbers 34 (with a search I found it)
but the bigger point is ... this is a prophesy by John. Now in recent years there have been several unexplained mass deaths of cattle and of fish ... but these aren't ALL ... and they are well after 70AD. Did all the life in the oceans die in the handful of years prior to 70AD?
Again, sorry for the delay.
37818
Well-Known Member
Until I get to reading this section for myself. Here is a useful link.
Chronology of the War According to Josephus: Part 7, The Fall of Jerusalem
Lodic
Well-Known Member
Well-documented material at the link. Thank you.
Lodic
Well-Known Member
If you read those passages from 1 Corinthians 15 and 2 Thessalonians 4 in context, you will see these are about our resurrected bodies. Revelation 3:8-11 is addressed specifically to Smyrna, the persecuted church. Jesus promised a special protection for them.
The Jewish Wars which culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. We know about this because it is so well documented. When you compare Scripture with history, you discover fulfillment of prophecy. When you compare Scripture with the news, you have a lot of fantasies.
The sea becoming blood and every living thing dying is hyperbole. This is about the tremendous slaughter of the Jewish Wars of AD 66-70.
The Jewish Wars which culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. We know about this because it is so well documented. When you compare Scripture with history, you discover fulfillment of prophecy. When you compare Scripture with the news, you have a lot of fantasies.
The sea becoming blood and every living thing dying is hyperbole. This is about the tremendous slaughter of the Jewish Wars of AD 66-70.
I've never said that "all prophesy was fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD", and Christ didn't say 'all prophecy', He said 'all that is written', and that was pertaining to those days of vengeance and wrath 'unto this people':
22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21
All that He said was going to happen in the Olivet Discourse did so before that generation passed.
This should be self-explanatory:
10 and they are seven kings; the five are fallen, the one is, the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a little while. Rev 17
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Really? I figured you were just parroting 'Roby the prophet'.
And this is the only bowl you're puzzled about? What about the other six?
They plainly say "Those who are alive will be changed".
Try again! Rev. 3:7 says it's to the church in PHILADELPHIA, which is in what's now Alasahir, Turkey, nowhere near Jerusalem. And it still exists!
And you're forgetting that news becomes history. For example, the launching of Sputnik was big news when I was a boy. I was thrilled to pick up its broadcast on a shortwave radio. (Only a child would be thrilled by hearing "beep-beep-beep-beep-beep".) But it's history now.
But anyway, the occurrence of the eschatological events is NOT found in history. Thus, prets reduce those Scriptures which disprove their myth to "figurative/symbolic" status.
Just another example of what I just mentioned, and pure speculation to link that war with prophecy.
OK ... perhaps I misread. My apologies to you as well.
What prophesies have yet to be fulfilled ... other than Christ's Second Coming and the Church Rapture?
Evidently there is more than one plausible explanation. If the 6th that "is" (then) ... the Roman Empire ... and if the 7th kingdom is the HRE (Holy Roman Empire) ... that was well after 70AD and the destruction of Jerusalem ... which means the 8th (the one world govt led by antichrist who is one of the 7th: Rev 17:11) had to follow the HRE ... or ... HAS to follow?
the chronology just doesn't fit, KY. There must be something else I'm missing.
There are other prophesied events which had to take place at/before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD if that generation is the one Christ referenced in Matt 24.
The Two Witnesses. where is their activity accounted in history?
what was the mark of the beast? was it a physical tattoo? or was it an allegory to the misrepresentation of the sabbath? (which didn't happen until the RCC got really big, post 70AD)
3 years ago, I changed my then 41 year understanding of the doctrine of "immanence" ... that Jesus will Return at any moment and that the Church will be Raptured prior to the 7 year tribulation.
Jesus COULD ... but He won't. Just as He wasn't born at any given moment 2000 years ago. He was born at the appointed time ... and "cut off" the very year (some Hebrew scholars can even narrow this to the Passover/Day) Daniel prophesied. Just as He wasn't given to lead Joshua and the Hebrews into Canaan at some random point in time.
So, I'm not going to tell ya you're full of ca ca. Please don't ever read that from my queries. I AM, however, trying to understand where the post fulfillment of (most) prophesy puts us today some 1950 years afterward. Do we have only the Rapture and Second Coming remaining? Is there no way to have so much as a clue about any period of time (great or small) when that will happen? Yes, we know "not the day nor the hour" but we consistently overlook the very preceding 4 verses of Matt 24 in that passage ... WE CAN know the the season. Given the illustration is of a fruit tree, the season happens once every earth year ... perhaps even in a 3 month time frame is the tell of that for which we're seeking.
Was not 1947 fulfilled prophesy of Israel's regathering? If not, why not?
Well, Mr. Fake News, you're trying to back out a little now.
Yes, all that was written AGAINST THE JEWS, UP TO THE TIME JESUS DECREED THE D.O.V. AGAINST THAT GENERATION OF JEWS was fulfilled in the days of vengeance.
But NOT the Olivet Discourse!
Obviously, the great trib hasn't yet come, or Jesus' return is 'WAY overdue! And Jesus said that trib will be the worst in History, and Rev.3:10 says it'll come upon THE WHOLE WORLD.
Now, care to tell us when Rev. 16:3 was fulfilled?
I'm only addressing the one about losing the sea life ...
We can certainly address the others and how they are in our history as well.
the sores on the people who took the mark of the beast. Already have that question about the mark of the beast. when did the people get the sores?
when did all the rivers/springs turn to blood?
when did super heat from the sun happen? (we are entering into a solar cycle of enormous activity now, btw. spaceweather.com ... two weeks ago we were getting "tronned" with radiation higher than seen in decades. The CME from 2526? was massive and absolutely engulfed our little planet.
darkened kingdom of the beast ...
... and then the dried Euphrates. When did that happen?
all of these are symbolic manifestation?
What prophecies remain to be fulfilled?
The coming of the beast and the false prophet to power, and their great empire.
The great trib.
The Gog-Magog war.
The sealing of the 144K Israeli witnesses, & the 2 special witnesses, among others.
The 5 kingdoms of Rev. 17 were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, & Greece. The "one that is" back then was Rome. The 7th was the Holy Roman Empire, & the 8th will start out with peoples & nations made from the 2 Roman empires. I, & many others, thought at first it was beginning with the European Union, but it's lost its popularity among its members, with a major member, Britain, leaving it.
But I believe (Not "prophesy"!) that the order of some of the events will be:
1.) Either the coming of the Beast" or the Jews' building a new temple in Jerusalem
2.)the rapture, as the beast takes power
3.)the "abomination of desolation" & mark of the beast.
4.) The Gog-Magog war
5.)The great trib
Those things have NOT yet happened; they're nowhere to be found in history.
The coming of the beast and the false prophet to power, and their great empire.
The great trib.
The Gog-Magog war.
The sealing of the 144K Israeli witnesses, & the 2 special witnesses, among others.
The 5 kingdoms of Rev. 17 were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, & Greece. The "one that is" back then was Rome. The 7th was the Holy Roman Empire, & the 8th will start out with peoples & nations made from the 2 Roman empires. I, & many others, thought at first it was beginning with the European Union, but it's lost its popularity among its members, with a major member, Britain, leaving it.
But I believe (Not "prophesy"!) that the order of some of the events will be:
1.) Either the coming of the Beast" or the Jews' building a new temple in Jerusalem
2.)the rapture, as the beast takes power
3.)the "abomination of desolation" & mark of the beast.
4.) The Gog-Magog war
5.)The great trib
Those things have NOT yet happened; they're nowhere to be found in history.
Just wanted to make sure we all agree that view is heresy!
The 'great tribulation', which was the same as ' Jacob's trouble', is done already.:
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21
21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24
19 For those days shall be tribulation, such as there hath not been the like from the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never shall be.
30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 13
You dispute Christ's words with such ease prophet roby and make Him out to be a liar.
what I'm disputing is the understanding of what period this is ... not what Jesus said.
I recognize you and Roby have a history of throwing barbs ... but that doesn't facilitate iron sharpening iron, that's just two bulls butting craniums. I posed a question about the evil since ... to fulfill Jesus' prophesy about this and that it happened approaching 70AD, that means none of those I listed previously (PolPot, et al) were worse than Nero.
A response to John 14:12 in "greater things than this" was given a simple multiplication of the Gospel's spreading as qualifying ... but the works were the same as Jesus'.
The vice to that is the degree of evil. The VOLTAGE if you will ... compared to the AMPERAGE total amount.
Some of these in the last 2000 years have certainly had the amperage advantage., which would, according to the interpretation of "greater than" John 14:12 mean Nero/successors were NOT the antichrist referenced.
...Except history proves you wrong.
As for "this generation", it means the one which shall see those events begin, & will also see Jesus' return.
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