Fall of our Nation?

[Dr. Bob]

At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The University of Edinburgh) had this to say about "The Fall of The Athenian Republic" some 2,000 years prior.

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."

He then continued:

"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."

How accurately does this describe your nation?

 

[mioque]

"How accurately does this describe your nation? "

The Netherlands seem to be about here on that scale.
"From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence"

California seems to have been suffering from the following problem since the 70's.
"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy,"

The good news that you can probably move back up the scale before it is to late.

 

[Ben Mills SsBG]

As a historian I am working on a book, that I do not ever think will get published, about how America is the Great Rome. If you look and do a good analysis of our way of life, entertainment, government, and philosophy, we are just the perpetuation of the Roman Empire. Us and all of out colonies.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I think that there are some amazing parallels Ben. The US may well go the way of Rome. I have to question your use of the term "colonies" though. Other than that I would find your research interesting.

 

[Johnv]

I think the US is in the "abundance to complaicency" stage. But I think we've been at that stage since the early 1800's. It seems whenever our abundance is threatened, we move back a a level, then over time, move forward. I'm more of a pragmatist (being neither a naysayer, nor bed of roses person) when it comes to the US. I think we will be in the back/forward motion we've been in perpetually for quite a while.

 

[Roy]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
[QUOTE
From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."

I think that the U.S is presently transitioning from the next to the last stage to the last stage. In "The Federalist Papers", Madison mentioned that congress could and should shut down the government in the event that a faction began controlling the government. (States had the greater responsibility of maintaining order and providing for the citizens) Today, if the federal government were to shut down, turmoil would ensue because the federal government is so heavily involved in everything...medicare, welfare, communications, transportation, education, social security, banking, and who knows what else.

In recent years,with the OK City bombing and 911, citizens are being coaxed into giving up more liberties in favor of greater security.

Roy

 

[mioque]

"If you look and do a good analysis of our way of life, entertainment, government, and philosophy, we are just the perpetuation of the Roman Empire."
What is the purest expression of mainstream lowbrow American culture? The fastfood industry!
When was the fastfoodindustry invented? During the Roman Empire!

 

[gobluenc39]

we turned our back on god,now hes turning hes back on us

 

[Ben Mills SsBG]

I have news for you. This “we turned our back on Hashem” crap is just that. This was never a Christian nation. Only the Puritans wanted this land to be the Kingdome of Hashem. This is a nation founded on a lot of good principal by people who have some good aspects of their character. Not all of out Founding Brothers (shameless plug for John J. Ellis’ book) were Christians. Not even most of them were. The biggest thing that our founders were after is land and profits for them selves and the country as a whole. Most of them kept slaves and did not free them. Most of them thought that they were better them other people. They did not hold women in high regard. In fact before the Declaration of Independence in most colonies women could and did vote as well as hold public office. After the DOI they were no allowed to do either. And even today they still are kept out of politics for the most part.

As to the colony comment. America is nothing more then a mercantile nation who is still trying to colonize the world. Only now we call it foreign policy and the “War on Terror.” We are exporting our jobs, and our culture to the rest of the world. We take the natural resource from other nations and fight wars over them. We have fought wars over oil, bananas, water way, and many more thing that we though that the people that we siphon off of were going to take back.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Whoops Ben!

I thought I found something to agree with you on -my bad.

You should really work on being more open about expressing your opinions. Let us know how you REALLY feel.

 

[gobluenc39]

ben

you are so funny but can you buy a ticket to the middle east where you belong and stay there, because if you live here long enough you will get social security and then all of a sudden you will be a american

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by Ben Mills SsBG:
In fact before the Declaration of Independence in most colonies women could and did vote as well as hold public office. After the DOI they were no allowed to do either.

I didn't realise that the DOI had any legal binding on the colonies. I thought all it did was to declare the colonies free from England. Could you show me where in the DOI it prohibits women from voting please?

 

[Roy]

Originally posted by Ben Mills SsBG:
I have news for you. This “we turned our back on Hashem” crap is just that.

Is hashem some new kind of weed that y'all are smoking out there in Californy, Ben?

Roy

 

[Ben Mills SsBG]

Hashem is a Hebrew name for the one true god. It really means "the name", so you just called the one true god a drug.

As for the DOI you are righ. I was just using it as a marker for time. I should have said Constitution to be totally right. Sorry my error.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Ben Mills SsBG:
1) In fact before the Declaration of Independence in most colonies women could and did vote as well as hold public office.

2) And even today they still are kept out of politics for the most part.

3) America is nothing more then a mercantile nation who is still trying to colonize the world.

4) We have fought wars over oil, bananas, water way, and many more thing that we though that the people that we siphon off of were going to take back.

1) Can you document that?

2) Can you document that?

3) Can you document that?

4) Can you document that?

And, since you have such a hatred for this nation, will you soon be emigrating?

 

[Ben Mills SsBG]

I actually have a great love for America. I am a US Historian. This discussion is about the potential demise of our nation. I love America so much that I am not blind enough to think that it will survive if its citizens stop being active on its behalf.

Furthermore this is the greatest nation in the world. I mean sure we have our faults, and they are many, but I still think we have the greatest opportunities for freedom in America.

As far as the documentation yes I can. You can either buy my book when it comes out or you can read Howard Zen’s book “A People’s History of America”, and anything by Edmund S. Morgan, Gordon S. Wood is also a great source of colonial American history.

And the correct word is IMAGRETING you would use EMIGRATING only when I am coming back to this country.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Ben Mills SsBG:
And the correct word is IMAGRETING you would use EMIGRATING only when I am coming back to this country.

Nope

-

Main Entry: em·i·grate
Pronunciation: 'e-m&-"grAt
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -grat·ed; -grat·ing
Etymology: Latin emigratus, past participle of emigrare, from e- + migrare to migrate
: to leave one's place of residence or country to live elsewhere

- www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=emigrate&x=15&y=18

I don't find the word you spelled in the dictionary.

 

[Matt Black]

"Imagreting" ain't no word I ever heard of, boy!Ie: not in dictionary

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Leave Ben alone guys - he is so fluent in Greek and Hebrew and is so busy memorising in those langauges and writing his book on America as the New Rome that he doesn't have time to focus on his English skills. Don't be so critical.

 

[mioque]

Practical example.
If I were to become a permanent resident of the US...
I would be emigrating from the Netherlands to the USA.
The same activity perceived from an US perspective, I would immigrating into the USA from the Netherlands.
Looking at it from my personal perspective, I would be crazy if I did it.