False accusations.

[Yeshua1]

"Only . . . the Elect" not Biblical. Psalms 69:27-28.

The saved of God are His elect, per the scriptures!

 

[37818]

So he holds to a Universalism of some degree?

A Universalism for children and the not yet born who die too young to believe. Matthew 19:14.

 

[Yeshua1]

A Universalism for children and the not yet born who die too young to believe. Matthew 19:14.

is that not the same as those of us who hold to God deciding to elect unto salvation babes and small children?

 

[AustinC]

So he holds to a Universalism of some degree?

I see it as Pelagian belief. Infants are holy and righteous, written down in the book of life, but at the "age of accountability" they must confirm or deny their faith. At that point the child either maintains their name in the book or the name is erased until or if the person repents and believes in the future.

In truth, it's a twist on Roman Catholic teaching of baptismal regeneration with the idea that continual faith plus works be maintained in order to remain saved.

The massive contradictions that must be ignored or explained away make it untenable, but we see a dogged determination to assert its validity despite its impossibility as a valid doctrine.

 

[Van]

This thread is debating various mythologies concerning the Lamb's book of life, and the concept we are not made sinners at conception. The bible teaches names are entered when a person is enrolled in heaven. They do not start out enrolled but are enrolled after they are made perfect. See Hebrews 12:23, and Romans 5:19. Note the first "many" refers to all those "in Adam" and the second "many" refers to all those in Christ.

 

[Yeshua1]

I see it as Pelagian belief. Infants are holy and righteous, written down in the book of life, but at the "age of accountability" they must confirm or deny their faith. At that point the child either maintains their name in the book or the name is erased until or if the person repents and believes in the future.

In truth, it's a twist on Roman Catholic teaching of baptismal regeneration with the idea that continual faith plus works be maintained in order to remain saved.

The massive contradictions that must be ignored or explained away make it untenable, but we see a dogged determination to assert its validity despite its impossibility as a valid doctrine.

There was a book written back while in College, when the Lord saved me, about the real good news, as basic premise of ther book was that all have now been saved by God in Christ, and that unless we decide to reject Him are still saved!

 

[Yeshua1]

This thread is debating various mythologies concerning the Lamb's book of life, and the concept we are not made sinners at conception. The bible teaches names are entered when a person is enrolled in heaven. They do not start out enrolled but are enrolled after they are made perfect. See Hebrews 12:23, and Romans 5:19. Note the first "many" refers to all those "in Adam" and the second "many" refers to all those in Christ.

God chooses to save us from eternity past!

 

[Van]

God chooses to save us from eternity past!

On and on folks, the same group of people ignore the oft cited rebuttal and hurl one false claim after another.
1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes being chosen before we were not not a people chosen for God's own possession, because at first we had not obtained mercy, but when chosen, we obtained mercy.

1Peter 2:9-10
But you are A CHOSEN PEOPLE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR GOD’S OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

 

[37818]

God chooses to save us from eternity past!

That statment makes no sense as stated.

 

[37818]

I see it as Pelagian belief. Infants are holy and righteous, written down in the book of life, but at the "age of accountability" they must confirm or deny their faith.

How is it Pelagian belief if they are need of Christ's redemption in order to be in the book of life being that the childern when conceived were concieved with the sinful nature?

 

[Yeshua1]

That statment makes no sense as stated.

We were elected and chosen by the Father to be saved in Christ before we accepted Jesus as Lord!

 

[37818]

We were elected and chosen by the Father to be saved in Christ before we accepted Jesus as Lord!

God chooses to save us from eternity past!

Ok. That is your interpertation. The problem here and elsewhere you make quips without citing Scriptures.

 

[AustinC]

How is it Pelagian belief if they are need of Christ's redemption in order to be in the book of life being that the childern when conceived were concieved with the sinful nature?

Go read your first statement. You say that all people are written in the book of life until the age of accountability where they must choose to believe or disbelieve. That makes all people who are born, holy and perfect until the age of accountability. That is Pelagian. Follow your own claims instead of contradicting yourself.

 

[37818]

Go read your first statement. You say that all people are written in the book of life until the age of accountability where they must choose to believe or disbelieve. That makes all people who are born, holy and perfect until the age of accountability. That is Pelagian. Follow your own claims instead of contradicting yourself.

I do not believe anyone is born innocent on the account of a general atonement. But on the basis of a general atonement those who are not yet of an age of reason where they can understand and believe what Christ did are given the free gift should they die before that age of reason. So they are in the true vine, being in the book of life by reason of the general atonement.

 

[MB]

No. You openly state a Pelagian view and then you deny it. This is you being irrational. Just once, actually read what you wrote as your belief and see it for what it is. You want to have a Pelagian theology and deny it at the same time. If you want to keep the view you espoused, then you have to own it as Pelagian.

You openly state a J.W. view every time you open your mouth. When you quote scripture you state something non biblical even though the truth is right in front of you.
MB

 

[AustinC]

You openly state a J.W. view every time you open your mouth. When you quote scripture you state something non biblical even though the truth is right in front of you.
MB

Tell me what view from Charles Taze Russell do I espouse? I'd love to have you identify it.

 

[MB]

Tell me what view from Charles Taze Russell do I espouse? I'd love to have you identify it.

Making false claims to support your doctrines that aren't in scripture such as the tulip you use Romans 3 and claim its talking about total Depravity when it's nothing more than what a fool said. You claim the holy Spirit regenerates men so they are saved. scripture never says the Holy Spirit regenerates. anyone. If you were regenerated you'd be perfect in nature and you still sin.You claim election yet there isn't even one Gentile in scripture ever said to be elected. You try to limit God on who He can save. With your limited atonement. You falsely accuse as if you are righteous and you are not. You claim that Gods grace is irresistible, when Christ invites us to come to Him.. You claim God saves us with out our willingness to be or not. You persevere to stay saved. You believe in Lordship Salvation. That men have to have good works or they aren't saved.
The likeness between you and JW"s is that when you look at scripture you do not see it as a whole. You convince your self of what you believe is right because of some preacher said so You deny what scripture says in favor of your false doctrines.
You lable people with false accusations of being something they obviously are't It's your way of saying they aren't saved.
MB

 

[AustinC]

Making false claims to support your doctrines that aren't in scripture such as the tulip you use Romans 3 and claim its talking about total Depravity when it's nothing more than what a fool said. You claim the holy Spirit regenerates men so they are saved. scripture never says the Holy Spirit regenerates. anyone. If you were regenerated you'd be perfect in nature and you still sin.You claim election yet there isn't even one Gentile in scripture ever said to be elected. You try to limit God on who He can save. With your limited atonement. You falsely accuse as if you are righteous and you are not. You claim that Gods grace is irresistible, when Christ invites us to come to Him.. You claim God saves us with out our willingness to be or not. You persevere to stay saved. You believe in Lordship Salvation. That men have to have good works or they aren't saved.
The likeness between you and JW"s is that when you look at scripture you do not see it as a whole. You convince your self of what you believe is right because of some preacher said so You deny what scripture says in favor of your false doctrines.
You lable people with false accusations of being something they obviously are't It's your way of saying they aren't saved.
MB

So, you have nothing...

 

[MB]

So, you have nothing...

You don't even deny what I wrote you call it nothing
MB

 

[AustinC]

You don't even deny what I wrote you call it nothing
MB

Show me what Charles Taze Russell taught that I also teach. This wasn't a difficult thing, since you say I teach JW teachings. Yet, since you fail to do this, it is clear you have nothing. You are using unsubstantive hyperbole to rant about things of which you have no clue.