False Gospel

[utilyan]

Angry Christian = Angry God Theology.

​

 

[Rebel1]

I agree with this absolutely. That's why I hold to Penal Substitution.

Yes, we've gone around and around about this, and nothing has changed -- you're still wrong. But it's good that you're consistent.

That's not an attack -- just returning humor for humor.

 

[Rebel1]

Angry Christian = Angry God Theology.

​

Could you expound on this?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Yes, we've gone around and around about this, and nothing has changed -- you're still wrong. But it's good that you're consistent.

That's not an attack -- just returning humor for humor.

One of us is certainly wrong. It just happens to be you, not I.

With regard to the O.P., I don't believe that salvation is based on knowledge of the Bible or its doctrines (though spiritual growth certainly is). It is Christ who saves, and He alone (Acts 4:12 etc.). Therefore a false gospel is one that teaches Christ plus. If someone is trusting in Christ plus baptism, Christ plus the mass, Christ plus good works or Christ plus anything else, he is trusting in a false gospel. [N.B. Good works follow salvation (Ephesians 2:10); they don't achieve it]
Another example of a false gospel is the 'Prosperity Gospel' because it makes people look to Christ for the wrong reasons.

 

[Rebel1]

One of us is certainly wrong. It just happens to be you, not I.

With regard to the O.P., I don't believe that salvation is based on knowledge of the Bible or its doctrines (though spiritual growth certainly is). It is Christ who saves, and He alone (Acts 4:12 etc.). Therefore a false gospel is one that teaches Christ plus. If someone is trusting in Christ plus baptism, Christ plus the mass, Christ plus good works or Christ plus anything else, he is trusting in a false gospel. [N.B. Good works follow salvation (Ephesians 2:10); they don't achieve it]
Another example of a false gospel is the 'Prosperity Gospel' because it makes people look to Christ for the wrong reasons.

I agree with everything you wrote, except the second sentence.

Seriously though, what you wrote is good.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Gee, I wonder how Yeshua1 is going to respond.

Rapture ready and dunked in the river Jordan

 

[1689Dave]

Jesus said all that the Father gave to him will come to him. This says a lot. Nothing will kill them before their time. They will hear the gospel, and they will believe. So any gospel mentioning Jesus as being trustworthy for salvation will do. It's not as though an incorrect gospel will thwart God's purposes. We have many gospels today. The Billy Graham/Charles Finney model called "decisional regeneration". The Arminian gospel based on free will. And the Calvinistic gospel where the Word if believed is a sacrament to replace the Roman sacraments. So it is hard to find any agreement in all of this but God brings folks to Christ through them.

 

[Reformed]

One of us is certainly wrong. It just happens to be you, not I.

With regard to the O.P., I don't believe that salvation is based on knowledge of the Bible or its doctrines (though spiritual growth certainly is). It is Christ who saves, and He alone (Acts 4:12 etc.). Therefore a false gospel is one that teaches Christ plus. If someone is trusting in Christ plus baptism, Christ plus the mass, Christ plus good works or Christ pus anything else, he is trusting in a false gospel. [N.B. Good works follow salvation (Ephesians 2:10); they don't achieve it]
Another example of a false gospel is the 'Prosperity Gospel' because it makes people look to Christ for the wrong reasons.

You wrote some good things in your reply. One thing I will add is that the true gospel proves itself over time. It never strays from the clear revelation of scripture and is able to withstand periods of persecution and blessing. It is not corruptable nor does it change. The Gospel echoes the very immutable nature of God (Hebrews 13:8).

In the late 19th century, the United States Secret Service, in coordination with the Bureau of Engraving and Printing and the United States Mint (part of the United States Department of the Treasury), began to train agents on all the intricacies of United States coins and paper currency. They became apologists for United States legal tender. The Secret Service trained their agents in this manner instead of starting them off analyzing counterfeit currency. Why? By becoming experts on the real thing, they could more easily spot even the most convincing fakes (1 John 4:1-6). The Gospel is the real thing. Its fledgling promise was revealed in the Garden (Genesis 3:15), progressively revealed through Old Testament covenants (Mosaic/Sinaitic, Abrahamic, and Davidic), and realized in the person of Jesus Christ, the inaugurator of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:6). It alone is the power of God unto salvation (Romans 1:16), exclusive of works or sacraments. When you think about it, it really is a high bar for a false gospel to even approach, never mind clear.

 

[Adonia]

Therefore a false gospel is one that teaches Christ plus. If someone is trusting in Christ plus baptism, Christ plus the mass, Christ plus good works or Christ plus anything else, he is trusting in a false gospel.

Those other things cannot be removed from the gospel equation, they are all clearly referenced in the Scriptures and are what the Christian Church has taught the faithful throughout the ages. Not just one thing, but everything is involved in the life of the Christian.

 

[JonShaff]

Those other things cannot be removed from the gospel equation, they are all clearly referenced in the Scriptures and are what the Christian Church has taught the faithful throughout the ages. Not just one thing, but everything is involved in the life of the Christian.

What is the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

 

[loDebar]

We are all wrong in that we have incomplete knowledge and understanding of Scripture and God's plan. Some assume God's words and meanings, some guess according to man's thoughts, or current fads.

I can guarantee we are wrong in our doctrine and this verse:
Act 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

 

[37818]

Which groups/denominations/individuals would you consider to be teaching a false gospel? What are the elements that make up a false gospel?

A group can teach a false gospel (heresy which causes one to deny God's Christ and unmerited forgiveness) and an individual in said group can yet be eternally saved by God on account of the true gospel of grace. One is not saved by one's own merit or lack thereof. If one correctly believes in God's Christ then God gives them the new birth (1 John 5:1, 12). It is only those who manage to get their name removed from the the book of life who perish (Revelation 20:15; How not to: Revelation 3:5; 1 John 5:4).

 

[Vincent1]

I am not Pelagian, but even less so Augustinian.

What do you find so distasteful with Augustine’s view exactly?

 

[atpollard]

The question on “penal substitution” vs “ransom” is far too Western centric for a Gospel that God created for “all people” (however one defines that). In the West from Judaism to Romanism to European Christianity, people have always been drawn to the emphasis on The Law. Adam violated the Law of God, Moses delivered the Law to teach us about our actions, Christ died to Justify us under the Law. Even as a ransom, it was our LEGAL debt that is the focus of what we were ransomed from.

In Asia, the culture as a whole, including Asian Christians view redemption through the lens of loss and restoration of HONOR. The actions of Adam have brought shame upon all of mankind. The failure of Israel to honor the covenant with God brought shame on all of the people of the nation. Each human being, in failing to give God the honor due him and in performing actions unsuitable to a child of God have brought shame upon our Creator and deep personal shame upon each of us. Jesus died not to pay the LEGAL debt, but to restore the Honor of the Father and to restore our personal Honor with the Father.

In Africa, fear of the Spirit realm is a very real thing. The sin of Adam is the story of the first attack by the King of the Evil Spirit realm upon the first human being. The Old Testament is the story of evil spirits leading the people astray. To convert to Christianity is to invite attack from all of the spirits that you now refuse to appease ... is God really able to protect you? Jesus life was a demonstration that God is more powerful than the spirits. Jesus death was the great battle between God and the King of the spirit world and Jesus resurrection proved that God has all power over the dark spirits ... even the power over death!

So the question of what did Christ die for should not be reduced to a single answer. Jesus died to satisfy the law and to restore honor and to overcome the devil. If you doubt that this is all included in the Gospel which was given to all nations, I call your attention to the following facts:

1. All three views are supported in the first three chapters of Genesis.
2. The Gospels speak of the Law and a Legal Contract.
3. The Story of the Prodigal Son speaks of a restoration of Honor.
4. The Gospels speak of Jesus and the Saint’s power over demons (and the Devil himself).

It seems to me that when God wrote the Bible, he knew what he was doing.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

I'm sure you know the scripture passages where the word ransom is used. The problem for those who see penal substitution in scriptures is this: Why didn't the earliest Christians see penal substitution there? Penal substitution was invented by Calvin and the other Magisterial Reformers; it was formed in an age where the work of Jesus was interpreted in a legalist way, just as Anselm's Satisfaction theory was a product of its age, as well -- feudalism.

Please supply any Biblical or extra-Biblical documentation to support your position. Particularly, that the earliest Christians (born-again believers) rejected the substitutionary death of Christ for the forgiveness of their sins.

Below are the thirteen occurrences of the word ransom in the KJV. Perhaps you can chose the ones that support your position. Good luck

Exo 21:30
Exo 30:12
Job 33:24
Job 36:18
Psa 49:7
Pro 6:35
Pro 13:8
Pro 21:18
Isa 43:3
Hos 13:14
Mat 20:28
Mar 10:45
1Ti 2:6

 

[atpollard]

• [1Timothy 2:5-6 NASB] 5 For there is one God, [and] one mediator also between God and men, [the] man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom G487 for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

(STRONGS G487) ἀντίλυτρον antílytron, an-til'-oo-tron; from G473 and G3083; a redemption-price:—ransom.

• [Matthew 20:25-28 NASB] 25 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and [their] great men exercise authority over them. 26 "It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, 27 and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom G3083 for many."
  
• [Mark 10:42-45 NASB] 42 Calling them to Himself, Jesus said to them, "You know that those who are recognized as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them; and their great men exercise authority over them. 43 "But it is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant; 44 and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be slave of all. 45 "
  For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom G3083 for many.”

(STRONGS G3083) λύτρον lýtron, loo'-tron; from G3089; something to loosen with, i.e. a redemption price (figuratively, atonement):—ransom.

 

[utilyan]

One of us is certainly wrong. It just happens to be you, not I.

With regard to the O.P., I don't believe that salvation is based on knowledge of the Bible or its doctrines (though spiritual growth certainly is). It is Christ who saves, and He alone (Acts 4:12 etc.). Therefore a false gospel is one that teaches Christ plus. If someone is trusting in Christ plus baptism, Christ plus the mass, Christ plus good works or Christ plus anything else, he is trusting in a false gospel. [N.B. Good works follow salvation (Ephesians 2:10); they don't achieve it]
Another example of a false gospel is the 'Prosperity Gospel' because it makes people look to Christ for the wrong reasons.

" I don't believe that salvation is based on knowledge of the Bible or its doctrines (though spiritual growth certainly is). It is Christ who saves, and He alone (Acts 4:12 etc.). Therefore a false gospel is one that teaches Christ plus."


Well if the knowledge of the bible and doctrine are unnecessary. Then there must be thousands of Calvinist spontaneously being elect and saved who have never heard of Jesus.

Plus the plus of anything wouldn't matter. If the true doctrine isn't required then a false doctrine is just as obstuctive and helpful as true doctrine.

 

[steaver]

Well if the knowledge of the bible and doctrine are unnecessary. Then there must be thousands of Calvinist spontaneously being elect and saved who have never heard of Jesus.

Plus the plus of anything wouldn't matter. If the true doctrine isn't required then a false doctrine is just as obstuctive and helpful as true doctrine.

Are you changing sides now? Remember it is you who has argued that all one needs to do is love God (whatever that means to them) and love others. You have argued one can even hear the gospel of Jesus Christ, reject Jesus is the Son of God (true doctrine), and still be saved. Remember you gave Paul as the example of how one gets saved, the Calvinist example.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Therefore a false gospel is one that teaches Christ plus. If someone is trusting in Christ plus baptism, Christ plus the mass, Christ plus good works or Christ plus anything else, he is trusting in a false gospel.

Those other things cannot be removed from the gospel equation, they are all clearly referenced in the Scriptures and are what the Christian Church has taught the faithful throughout the ages. Not just one thing, but everything is involved in the life of the Christian.

The Gospel says, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved' (The Acts 16:31). Having been saved, to be sure, baptism, the Lord's Supper, good works are commanded (Acts 8:12; Luke 22:19; Ephesians 2:10). But, 'when we were still without strength, in due time, Christ died for the ungodly' (Romans 5:6). Nothing we do can save us, only Christ. Even repentance and faith will be found to be gifts of God (Acts 11:18; Ephesians 2:8).

 

[utilyan]

Are you changing sides now? Remember it is you who has argued that all one needs to do is love God (whatever that means to them) and love others. You have argued one can even hear the gospel of Jesus Christ, reject Jesus is the Son of God (true doctrine), and still be saved. Remember you gave Paul as the example of how one gets saved, the Calvinist example.

No not changing sides. I'm drawing out conclusions from Calvinist logic. Because he wants it to look like "MONERGISM".

He might have a good answer we just have to wait to hear it.

My understanding of Calvinism is you cannot be regenerated unless you hear the gospel.


They have it where saving precedes belief and faith.


This is the only question need to focus on:

Does regeneration occur before or after a sinner hears the gospel?



The common answer is after hearing the gospel BUT prior to belief.



Then enters the conundrum,

Do they FORCE the UNREGENERATE SINNER to hear the gospel at gunpoint or does the UNREGENERATE SINNER COOPERATE by their free will?

They swear up and down "its all on God" and sweep the details under the rug.