False Teachings

[utilyan]

That is correct.

You speak truth.

Amen!

No pickle for me.

Incorrect. Jesus used the example of the merciful Samaritan to show that ALL of mankind is your neighbour regardless of what you may think their status is with God.

Not quite. The Samaritan is only damned if he hears the Words of Christ on justification and rejects those words.

No problem. I certainly would do the same. However, my good deed would not be saving me.

As a born of God child of God I would not be saying "NO". The Samaritan as well as any other person in this world is my neighbour, this is the teaching of the Parable. He may or may not be damned, that depends on if he received Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour or not. As for the two guys who passed me up, I would judge by their fruits they did not hold the faith of Jesus Christ as I do, it matters not if they simply say they do without evidence they actually do.

Really? With all due respect, do you understand that when one is born-again they are a new creation in Christ? They do not rob and stab people. If they do, they are liars and have never met Jesus Christ in Spirit.

I would thank him so much for his mercy and kindness. Then I would tell him about Jesus' love and how whosoever believes in him will inherit eternal life, and those who reject God's provision for sin will be damned. This is not "spitting in his face", unless this is what you considered Jesus doing when He told the Pharisees and His disciples as much.

Kindness does not make a person righteous before God. Maybe it would be benificial if you could explain for me John 3:18. It seems you are ignoring these words of Christ.

Don't take such a short sighted view of kindness. God and Kindness are the same.

John 3:18
18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


It means Love God and Love your Neighbor.

Love of God and Love of Neighbor is ONE and the same thing.

Love is God.


That might be hard to swallow. I'm being too strict with you. Hang tight I got scripture.


Matthew 22

37And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38“This is the great and foremost commandment. 39“The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ 40“On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”


Same thing.


John 13
34“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Same thing.

1 john 3
23This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.


Same thing. If you don't see the same thing you still got ways to go. Love of God you find that in love of neighbor. Love of neighbor I can find that in Love of God. Can you find believing in the name of Jesus Christ inside loving your neighbor?


Galatians 5

14For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”


Did you spot the whole thing here? Do you see love God?

Do you see faith working through love? Do you see believing in the name of Jesus?

 

[steaver]

Did you spot the whole thing here? Do you see love God?

Do you see faith working through love? Do you see believing in the name of Jesus?

Yes, what I see is the twisting you are doing to try to make "loving thy neighbour" the equivalent of "believing on the name of Jesus Christ", declaring they are one in the same. Huge problem with that...

1) This pov is easily destroyed when tested in real life applications. Simply ask a Jew or a Muslim if they love thy neighbour as thyself, even ask them if they consider all faiths their neighbours. If they say yes, and this is the same as believing on the name of Jesus Christ, then they should also readily say they believe on the name of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour when presented the Gospel. It would be foolish to embrace love thy neighbour as thyself and at the same time reject the source of this very commandment, Jesus Christ, whom had been revealed in the flesh. So this alone destroys this pov. It would be like saying "yes I believe in the commandment given by God, but I do not believe in God". Silly of course.

2) Jesus made it perfectly clear, "... Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." The Apostle John speaking on behalf of God added this qualifier..."Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him." (1John5) You cannot say they believe in the name of Jesus Christ simply because they are loving thy neighbour. The Scripture (Not the RCC) declares whosoever is born of God believes on Jesus Christ and loves Jesus Christ. No rebirth = No salvation. If they were born of God they would have the Spirit of Christ in them (Ro 8) and would be confessing Jesus Christ is Lord. This is Bible 101.

3) The Apostle Paul laments over his Jewish brethren for not believing in the name of Jesus Christ, although Paul declares they have a zeal for God and God's commandments...."For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge." (Ro10:2) Many Jews and Muslims have a zeal for God, but they reject the Truth given by God, and that Truth is in His Son and is recorded for all of us in the NT Scriptures, which they reject. Paul does not view them as "saved", in fact he is hoping to save some through his persistent preaching of Jesus Christ to them..."If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them" (Ro11).

4) Loving thy Neighbour is a work of the Law just as obeying any other commandment is. Paul declares..."Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." (Gal 2) Anyone can obey the Law in some ways, even seemingly very well, however never even close to perfectly. Obeying the Law is NOT the same as believing in the name of Jesus Christ. Jesus makes this perfectly clear as does His disciples.

I could add about a hundred more points and support them with Scripture. This "Good Samaritan" doctrine that is being propagated by the RCC is obviously infecting their followers and is responsible for deceiving multitudes into a false hope. This is why it is false teaching.

You need to reconsider what you have been led to believe brother. It makes absolutely no sense to think one can Love thy Neighbour and say they reject Jesus Christ as the son of God at the same time and still you believe they actually do believe on Jesus Christ and are just fine with God and will be saved. To do this is to be part of their condemnation for not telling them the Truth.

I pray you will see the folly of this false teaching which has taken over your church. Many shall perish because of it. They need to hear the Truth, and receive Jesus Christ, and confess His name or they will not be saved. Loving thy Neighbour is not believing on Jesus Christ by proxy and is not salvation.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Tradition.....TRADITION!

 

[steaver]

Tradition.....TRADITION!

I don't even see this topic as RCC tradition. This "Good Samaritan" doctrine has crept in just in the past few decades or so. It is a fulfillment of prophecy, the end time conglomeration of religions paving the way for the anti-Christ to step in to lead and unify all faiths. The RCC has no choice but to be part of this simply because of the scope and size of it's influence. But we continue to sound the alarm in hopes to save some from this peril.

 

[steaver]

Romans 10:

(1) "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

(2) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

(3) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

(4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

(5) For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

(6) But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)

(7) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

(8) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

(9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

(10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation".

So the question for our Catholic friends is, what is the word of faith Paul says we preach? How shall one be saved? Does the Word of God line up with the RCC "Good Samaritan" doctrine of salvation which declares a person does NOT have to confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and does NOT have to believe in their heart God raised Him from the dead? They need only practice the Law and be a good, loving neighbour.

Look at Utilyan's argument thus far. He is arguing that the keeping of the Law is the same as having faith in Jesus Christ. This is a remarkable pov seeing how the NT goes to great lengths to declare the keeping of the Law will not save!

 

[steaver]

I perceive you time is very short here Utilyan. If you believe your heresy will make it far on this board you are sadly mistaken. Those who regularly debate Scripture here are very sound on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Your doctrine is anti-Christ and I pray someday you truly find what it means to be born-again.

 

[utilyan]

I perceive you time is very short here Utilyan. If you believe your heresy will make it far on this board you are sadly mistaken. Those who regularly debate Scripture here are very sound on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Your doctrine is anti-Christ and I pray someday you truly find what it means to be born-again.

Heresy? this is a 2000 year old belief. Held by the majority of all Christians on earth.

You know we got a catechism where you can look up exactly what we believe here is a link:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

That way you have "ammo" debating us instead of "whatcha-heard" then we don't run circles around you with holy scripture.

Why don't you just find a verse that says love alone is useless? That would have been easier.
Instead we will see GOD IS LOVE 1 John 4.

Here's another novel Idea.....Lets do what Jesus says to do. Amen? :::crickets:::

Had we found a Jesus verse pushing faith alone you'd be shoving that verse down everyone's throat without letting off. But thankfully Jesus wasn't evil.Laugh

You're not evil that's just a joke.Laugh

I'm pretty sure you'll come around, leave it to God to have you hear it from a catholic rather then anything else.

Your like a older brother, I gotta love you.

The reason one disagree with Jesus is one only care about salvation and what is in it for themselves.
We need to make God our highest priority.


Please read this scripture very slowly. read it 5 times, Soak in its meanings word for word.

1 Corinthians 13

2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

This verse tells us what you know and what you believe along with a perfect faith is NOTHING without Love.


“What kind of puzzling thing is this, a person who has all faith and yet does not love? Persons who do not love God and do not love their brothers and sisters? What kind of dark abyss is this which we have to gaze into here? It is a faith that is overbearing, high-handed, selfish, and egotistical in the innermost recesses of the heart, a faith that only seeks itself. It is a godless faith that believes not for God’s sake, but for its own sake.” –Bonhoeffer


Folks perceive kindness and love as weak. Only got their eyes on who ever has the gun.

Sure enough if Satan decided who gets salvation or not you know I'm not taking it because Love is the priority and goal of a Christian.

1 timothy 1
5But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.



21. But I have the sacrament, you will say. You say the truth; the sacrament is divine; you have baptism, and that I confess. But what says the apostle? If I should know all mysteries, and have prophecy and all faith, so that I could remove mountains; in case you should say this, I believe; enough for me. But what says James? The devils believe and tremble. James 2:19 Faith is mighty, but without charity it profits nothing. The devils confessed Christ. Accordingly it was from believing, but not from loving, they said, What have we to do with You? Mark 1:24 They had faith, but not charity; hence they were devils. Boast not of faith; so far you are on a level with the devils. Say not to Christ, What have I to do with You? For Christ's unity speaks to you. Come, learn peace, return to the bowels of the dove. You have been baptized without; have fruit, and you return to the ark. --ST. AUGUSTINE


“‘You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe, and they tremble.’ (James 2:19)
They alone know how to believe in God who love God, who are Christians not only in name but also in action and [way of] life, because without love faith is empty. With love, it is the faith of a Christian —without love, the faith of a demon.”
— St. Bede the Venerable, Commentary on James


Francis explained himself, "The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart, do good and do not do evil. All of us. 'But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.' Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ, all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists. Everyone!" We must meet one another doing good. 'But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: we will meet one another there." -- Pope Francis

 

[steaver]

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. (Gal 1:6-7)

I understand how Jesus and Paul felt going up against the Pharisees trying to persuade them that their own righteousnesess was not going to save them. Paul spoke well when he said....

"Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God." (Romans 10)

Your "One does not need to confess Jesus is Lord" gospel is a perversion of the Scriptures Utilyan. I provided numerous passages for you to consider and you dismiss and ignore them all in favor of your perverted, un-biblical theory. Only a move by the Holy Spirit could possibly change your heart, if God has not already turned you over beyond reach. I pray it is not too late for you. Go and learn from the Scriptures what it means to be born-again, it is a must for salvation. Believe Jesus' words, don't let others lead you astray.

 

[steaver]

Here's another novel Idea.....Lets do what Jesus says to do. Amen? :::crickets:::

"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins". Jesus - (John 8) True or False Utilyan? Satan's idea or Jesus' idea?

 

[steaver]

I have a question for all the Catholic friends who I know are listening to this discussion between Utilyan and myself. Am I learning something new here about what Catholics believe? I did not know Jesus' teaching on confessing His name to be saved was attributed to an idea from satan. I provided numerous Scriptures showing it is Jesus who declared those who reject Him and His name are condemned. Yet Utilyan says this is an idea from satan. Is this the position of all or most Catholics? I ask because I know there are other Catholics here and they are probably watching this thread and none have stepped up to challenge Utilyan on his doctrine on it having no bearing on salvation if one rejects Jesus as Lord, which he claims is 2000 years old in Catholic doctrine. It is shocking to me that he would declare this idea Jesus spoke to be that of satan's.

 

[utilyan]

I have a question for all the Catholic friends who I know are listening to this discussion between Utilyan and myself. Am I learning something new here about what Catholics believe? I did not know Jesus' teaching on confessing His name to be saved was attributed to an idea from satan. I provided numerous Scriptures showing it is Jesus who declared those who reject Him and His name are condemned. Yet Utilyan says this is an idea from satan. Is this the position of all or most Catholics? I ask because I know there are other Catholics here and they are probably watching this thread and none have stepped up to challenge Utilyan on his doctrine on it having no bearing on salvation if one rejects Jesus as Lord, which he claims is 2000 years old in Catholic doctrine. It is shocking to me that he would declare this idea Jesus spoke to be that of satan's.

That is a false misrepresentation. From what you said, I Wouldn't agree with Utilyan......AND IM UTILYAN.

I gave you a link to the catholic catechism. That's like a rule book. Where you can actually read it for yourself.
Pharisees always weak against Christ.......if they can't win them they kill him.

 

[utilyan]

"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins". Jesus - (John 8) True or False Utilyan? Satan's idea or Jesus' idea?

TRUE. Jesus.

You do, great! You don't, " then ye shall die in your sins" I got no problem with that

That's not a command is it?



Again here is a novel idea LETS DO what Jesus says to do?

Your turn on the chopping block, brother.


Luke 10
25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”


TRUE OR FALSE?

Satan's idea or Jesus' Idea?

 

[steaver]

Luke 10
25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”


TRUE OR FALSE?

Satan's idea or Jesus' Idea?

True, Jesus' words. Now tell us all how you have obeyed this law to the perfection demanded by God. Or have you fallen short as the rest of us?

 

[steaver]

That is a false misrepresentation. From what you said, I Wouldn't agree with Utilyan......AND IM UTILYAN.

I gave you a link to the catholic catechism. That's like a rule book. Where you can actually read it for yourself.
Pharisees always weak against Christ.......if they can't win them they kill him.

It is exactly what you had been saying. I said, and gave scripture, Jesus said you must believe on Him or be condemned. You said this is an idea from satan.

 

[steaver]

TRUE. Jesus.

You do, great! You don't, " then ye shall die in your sins" I got no problem with that

That's not a command is it?

It's not a command? Really? It's a matter of fact. If you do not believe He is the Christ, you will die in your sins! And you declare this teaching is from satan.

 

[utilyan]

What I'm trying to convey is one ought to approach Christ's commands having perfect unity. If one does one perfectly they automatically cover the rest. Its not either or with what he says, but both and.

Example:
John 6
28Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”


James 2
22You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;


You might not always love your neighbor, but when you do the result is a step closer to perfect faith.


For example that GOOD Samaritan is on the right path, loving God and loving neighbor that's the track he needs to be on and it is going to help.


When Jesus is talking about BELIEVE its not a matter of existence, people are looking right at him when he talks.


Is like if we come to learn to drive a car.

Jesus says BELIEVE ME and you will drive a car.

Then he tells someone well step on the gas to make the car move.

Then there is a argument because someone tries to teach another step on the gas. There is an objection because someone claims the only way to drive the car is BELIEVE in Jesus.

 

[steaver]

You do, great! You don't, " then ye shall die in your sins" I got no problem with that

So your process of obeying the Word is to rewrite what Jesus said, and then agree with yourself. Isn't that what Paul said of the Pharisees? "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God." (Ro 10)

 

[DHK]

Heresy? this is a 2000 year old belief. Held by the majority of all Christians on earth.

You know we got a catechism where you can look up exactly what we believe here is a link:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

I saw that previous post.
Not even the Catholic' s agree with it, and you can't find such gibberish in the link you provided.

 

[utilyan]

True, Jesus' words. Now tell us all how you have obeyed this law to the perfection demanded by God. Or have you fallen short as the rest of us?

Case is closed? I will do as Christ Commands.


" Now tell us all how you have obeyed this law to the perfection demanded by God. Or have you fallen short as the rest of us?"

I had a good teacher, Jesus Christ.

Sure you can get all the details of my progress from Jesus Christ.

 

[DHK]

TRUE. Jesus.

You do, great! You don't, " then ye shall die in your sins" I got no problem with that

That's not a command is it?



Again here is a novel idea LETS DO what Jesus says to do?

Your turn on the chopping block, brother.


Luke 10
25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”


TRUE OR FALSE?

Satan's idea or Jesus' Idea?

That command? Can you keep it? Do you keep it?