Falwell and some gays

[Loren B]

Dear Post-It,
Are you for real? Or are you posting these off the wall opinions just to get a rise out of the rest of us? I hope for your sake that it is the latter because to condone sin in any form is a dangerous position with God.

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by loren1107:
Dear Post-It,
Are you for real? Or are you posting these off the wall opinions just to get a rise out of the rest of us? I hope for your sake that it is the latter because to condone sin in any form is a dangerous position with God.

That isn't the issue we are speaking of on this thread. You can find that issue on the Theology forum. We are discussing Falwells reaction to Mr. White. So let's stay on topic, please.

Do you think Jerry is right when saying these two people Mr. and Mrs. White should reunite? What if niether wants to reunite, doesn't that count for anything? After all adultry was committed. Am I the only one reading scripture and understanding the wrong actions presented by Falwell?

Anyone else think that we should ignore scripture and force two people together after adultry because of the Marriage Vow?

[ October 01, 2002, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

[swaimj]

Replies to Post-it

I used Mr. White symbolically to represent the majority of homosexuals who followed the "pressure" of the church to "choose" to be heterosexual and thus marry. Are you saying the church doesn't do that?

Does the church encourage heterosexual marriage and discourage homosexual activity? Yes. I plead guilty. However you are arguing that the church creates a situation in which they coerce people who are born homosexuals to enter into heterosexual unions. I think this is broadly an assumption on your part and it is a specific assumption on the issue of Mr. White which you cannot prove. I would be surprised if you are privy to his motivations at the time he entered into marriage. For instance, did Mr. White ever have sexual urges toward his wife prior to or during their marriage? I don't know the answer to this, but I wonder if you have the answer either. In your reasoning, you seem to be assuming that he did not. Perhaps Mr. White has stated that he did not. On the other hand, if his wife were to comment on his feelings toward her, we might find that he left her with a different impression.

...would you take back a spouse that said she felt she was homosexual and would always be homosexual. That she could be married to you but nothing sexual would be occurring in the marriage due to her orientation. Whether you accept her words as fact or not. Would you maintain a marriage with her if your kids were already grown and on their own?
...but you would do both of you an injustice to stay together for a past promise when neither of you want to keep that promise (marriage vow).

Falwell's suggestion that Mr. White be reconciled to his wife would imply that he return to her and fulfill his husbandly duties toward her; i.e. love her in a self-sacrificing way as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her. Given this, Falwell is not suggesting the above quoted scenario. He is suggesting true reconciliation. If Mr. White is a Christian, he should fulfill the vows he made before God and before man. Anything else is disobedience.

Now along comes Jerry Falwell and he says you should remarry because of the vow you both took years before. Don't you think he has stuck his nose in the wrong pie?

Ya know, Jerry Falwell has been pastoring Thomas Road Baptist Church since, what, 1956? Mr. White is attending his church as a public affront to Falwell, to get publicity, and to seek to embarrass Falwell. It seems to me that it is Mr. White who is sticking himself where he doesn't belong . And much to his dismay, I suspect, Jerry Falwell and his church are responding in a very godly and graceful way.

[ October 01, 2002, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: swaimj ]

 

[Grasshopper]

Seems to me any repentent sinner should be welcome in the church. However any unrepentent sinner should not be and fellowship should be broken. If you feel homosexuality is not a sin then the debate is moot.

 

[Grammy1013]

Originally posted by post-it:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by loren1107:
Dear Post-It,
Are you for real? Or are you posting these off the wall opinions just to get a rise out of the rest of us? I hope for your sake that it is the latter because to condone sin in any form is a dangerous position with God.

That isn't the issue we are speaking of on this thread. You can find that issue on the Theology forum. We are discussing Falwells reaction to Mr. White. So let's stay on topic, please.
</font>[/QUOTE]Loren,

You post whatever comments you want, dear. The board is for everyone. Your comment was excellent and warranted. I'm no more a moderator here than post-it is, we're all members and can post our comments freely.

Sorry, post-it, but I just got tired of your condescending remarks when people post an off-topic remark.

 

[Grammy1013]

Originally posted by Grasshopper:
Seems to me any repentent sinner should be welcome in the church. However any unrepentent sinner should not be and fellowship should be broken. If you feel homosexuality is not a sin then the debate is moot.

Yeah, I'm sure Jesus cleared the mountain of all unrepentant sinners before he started preaching the beatitudes, huh? He probably made sure they didn't get any loaves and fishes, either, huh? I can hear it now ... "don't feed the BAD people".

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I find it hard to believe that anyone thinks we should push away someone who so obviously needs Christ.

Sinners, even UNREPENTANT ones should be ministered to always ... not just when they repent. If they're not repenting, pray more, minister better.

 

[Graceforever]

Originally posted by post-it:
I find it strange that millions have been touch by God through the written words of a Closet Gay Christian. Then when the Gay Christian stops living the lie, he is told he will go to hell unless he changes back to the liar he use to be. Sad, very sad.

You’re the man Postit, you’re the one in a sad situation… A Closet Gay Christian? Now there’s an oxymoron…. You know postit, I can agree with you on the issue that God doesn’t see the sinner, but the blood of Christ…. You just don’t get the picture that a Christian no longer desires to live in an unholy condition… When someone is saved he is given a new nature…. He doesn’t enjoy lying in a pig’s sty…. So, he washes himself and follows after the shepherd…. I have a feeling that there are a lot of pigs that have never had a new nature, so, they go back to wallowing in the mud…. Does a Christian sin? Yes! Does he enjoy it? No! Does the spirit lead him to repent and forsake sin… It is certain!

 

[just-want-peace]

Grasshopper:

However any unrepentent sinner should not be and fellowship should be broken.

Grammy1013:

Sinners, even UNREPENTANT ones should be ministered to always ... not just when they repent. If they're not repenting, pray more, minister better.

(Bold emphasis mine)

Big difference in what's said originally & what's replied to!!

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by Graceforever:
When someone is saved he is given a new nature…. He doesn’t enjoy lying in a pig’s sty…. So, he washes himself and follows after the shepherd…. I have a feeling that there are a lot of pigs that have never had a new nature, so, they go back to wallowing in the mud…. Does a Christian sin? Yes! Does he enjoy it? No! Does the spirit lead him to repent and forsake sin… It is certain![/QB]

I AGREE WITH this post 100%. I think you may have just put forward the best argument that proves homosexuality under the right condition is not a sin or sinful. It never hit me until I read your words as written. If all forms of homosexuality were sinful, the homosexual would know it by conviction; he/she would not want to continue in any type of sin. They know that sex outside of marriage is wrong, but they are still homosexual and I understand why they don't change or want to change... because it isn't sin, otherwise they would. No murderer keeps murdering, no liar keeps lying, and no adulterer keeps cheating. So the proof is in the fact that homosexuals know which acts are sinful and which aren't.

Thanks for an insightful post.

 

[Grasshopper]

Yeah, I'm sure Jesus cleared the mountain of all unrepentant sinners before he started preaching the beatitudes, huh? He probably made sure they didn't get any loaves and fishes, either, huh? I can hear it now ... "don't feed the BAD people".

I agree with you when you are talking OUTSIDE the church, but if you believe sin should be left alone and tolerated in the church, I strongly disagree! What is the purpose of church discipline if you tolerate unrepentent sin?

 

[JamesJ]

Nope... sorry post-it... You understood what was said, but just couldn't help tweaking it and twisting it, could ya... You understood that what was said was that a person who "claims" to be a Christian, and is not convicted of the sins that they commit, is not a Christian. They have not been indwelled with the Holy Spirit, hence no source of conviction of the sin. But that scenario doesn't fit your agenda so you twist it...

OK, go ahead and berate me with your words about "so now I know who's saved and who isn't..." Can't wait for it...

I'm prayin' for ya buddy-ro... Just so ya know...