Family planning.

[labinsk]

What is your thoughts on birth control in any form. Why and when we as christian people decided that it's ok to plan our families and use birth control?

We've been married for almost eight years, now that I look back and I actually remember our pastor suggesting to wait atleat a year before we have a child, how about trusting God in all our ways? We did wait and had a child about 2 years later, we also waited about 2 more years before trying again, and we did had another child with little more than 2 years between them, but than we seriously started to question our reasons for stopping pregnancies, why? We know that God is in control of the womb, children are blessings from God, than why do we control when/how many to have like we know better.

We could not come up with a single reason, but being selfish and not wholly trusting God. I just don't understand why this is not being encouraged in church, other way around, large families are being looked down on, like they are being foolish by having so many kids. I let some people know that we are letting God plan our family, and the answers I get, pretty much that God gave us wisdom and brain so we should use it, WOW.

After a long Bible study we just could not find anything that supports ANY kind of birth control.

 

[preachinjesus]

It's not really addressed in the Bible. Primarily because most of the methods we use today didn't exist in biblical times.

My wife and I have used birth control in various forms and have no problem with it ethically, theologically, or biblically. It isn't addressed explicitly (outside of maybe Genesis 38 and Leviticus 15) but when it is the context doesn't carry across. Many of the purification rituals and personal cleanliness obligations under the old Law are no longer required in the New Covenant.

I don't see it addressed in the Bible. This might well be a principle of freedom in Christ, or Christian liberty.

Now for a brief story: I remember talking with a good friend in seminary about family planning and I made an off hand remark that my wife and I were waiting until we were done with school and more established before having kids. He got very agitated and started condemning me in front of a bunch of people (outside the faculty lounge nonetheless.) It was a really weird moment. I just told him to calm down and that I don't think he had the right to speak into my life like he was. It got very testy and he refused to talk with me for the remainder of the semester. I don't know why people get so crazy about these issues. For me, freedom in Christ/Christian liberty, is a carefully applied principle. Here it seems to be appropriate.

 

[Salty]

I think waiting until you finish school is an excellent reason before having kids.

Keep in mind that back in the "ole" days - kids were an assert. ie - on the farms they could do chores, ect.

Now days kids are a "liability" especially if they don't live on farms -

The cost of raising a child is constantly going up. It is estimated that it will cost over 130,000 dollars to raise a child (not counting college)

and here is another calculator

 

[annsni]

The Bible speaks of children as a blessing but so is wine and we limit that, don't we?

God opens and closes the womb and even going to surgical procedures, He has still overridden that and created a child for His purpose so I'd say that no matter what we did, God can still open a womb.

That said, I think there are some valid reasons to hold off having children. I believe that we must go into having children with the right heart and be ready to accept the blessing when God chooses to open the womb. To postpone a child in order to finish school (thus assuring that you can support the child), for medical reasons and for practical reasons (you're not going to plan to become pregnant 9 months before leaving to be missionaries in Africa - I'd put it off or do it sooner so assure you are not 9 months pregnant when you are leaving).

In our case, I have had 4 c-sections and my husband does not want me to have any more kids. He trusts God fully but also knows the ramifications of multiple surgeries on his wife and since we are older as well (I'm 47 and he is 51), it has been decided that we will not pursue more children. So no, we do not believe that birth control is sin.

HOWEVER, I do believe that some birth control is not a good choice for the Christian. One that allows fertilization of an egg but will not allow it to implant in the endometrium is one that should not be used, IMO. But there are choices that do not allow that to happen and should an egg be fertilized, it does not prevent it from implanting. Barrier methods are the main focus here.

 

[12strings]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enkIK6Wqqdk

I generally agree with John Piper's logic here...start about 3 minutes in for his discussion of choosing to have less kids for some reason.

 

[jonathanD]

Can't bring myself to use abortifacients. It is a tertiary method of the pill. When my wife and I found that out, we couldn't justify using the pill anymore.

 

[Arbo]

The Bible speaks of children as a blessing but so is wine and we limit that, don't we?

And if the latter isn't limited, there may be more of the former. :laugh:

 

[freeatlast]

What is your thoughts on birth control in any form. Why and when we as christian people decided that it's ok to plan our families and use birth control?

We've been married for almost eight years, now that I look back and I actually remember our pastor suggesting to wait atleat a year before we have a child, how about trusting God in all our ways? We did wait and had a child about 2 years later, we also waited about 2 more years before trying again, and we did had another child with little more than 2 years between them, but than we seriously started to question our reasons for stopping pregnancies, why? We know that God is in control of the womb, children are blessings from God, than why do we control when/how many to have like we know better.

We could not come up with a single reason, but being selfish and not wholly trusting God. I just don't understand why this is not being encouraged in church, other way around, large families are being looked down on, like they are being foolish by having so many kids. I let some people know that we are letting God plan our family, and the answers I get, pretty much that God gave us wisdom and brain so we should use it, WOW.

After a long Bible study we just could not find anything that supports ANY kind of birth control.

The answer is no it is not biblical, but the reason is there was no such thing from a medical prospect to address it at the writing of the bible. One problem with birth control is if done in a pill form it can and does cause abortions even when the couple are not aware of it. I tis highly likely that many Christian women who have used the pill have done an abortion and did not know it.
http://www.prolife.com/BIRTHCNT.html

As for a married couple who are seeking to limit their family size through natural means I see no reason to think it goes against the Lord's will, but I would be open to hear how and why if some feel it does..

 

[abcgrad94]

The Bible has lots to say about providing for one's own family. Based on that, I say, if you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em.

There's nothing worse to me than seeing a big family with the parents touting how they "trust the Lord" about childbirth, yet they are on foodstamps/welfare or living off the generosity of others.

That's not to say all big families do this, but I've seen it time and time again and it's hypocritical.

As Ann stated, there are times when barrier methods or other birth control methods are needed and appropriate.

 

[Salty]

...There's nothing worse to me than seeing a big family with the parents touting how they "trust the Lord" about childbirth, yet they are on foodstamps/welfare or living off the generosity of others. ...

Thats not trusting in the Lord - thats trusting in the govt - and that aint too smart....

 

[labinsk]

@preachinjesus

Now for a brief story: I remember talking with a good friend in seminary about family planning and I made an off hand remark that my wife and I were waiting until we were done with school and more established before having kids. He got very agitated and started condemning me in front of a bunch of people (outside the faculty lounge nonetheless.) It was a really weird moment. I just told him to calm down and that I don't think he had the right to speak into my life like he was. It got very testy and he refused to talk with me for the remainder of the semester. I don't know why people get so crazy about these issues. For me, freedom in Christ/Christian liberty, is a carefully applied principle. Here it seems to be appropriate.

We would never look down or condemn anybody that does not believe same as us. That is not practicing 1Cr 13:13.

@Salty

Keep in mind that back in the "ole" days - kids were an assert. ie - on the farms they could do chores, ect.

When you read King Solomons Plalm 127 you can see that he was far from being a farmer as you can get. He did not say plows in the hand of a farmer, so are the children of one's youth

@annsni

God opens and closes the womb and even going to surgical procedures, He has still overridden that and created a child for His purpose so I'd say that no matter what we did, God can still open a womb.

For me It's the attitude towards having a children, "I'll do a vasectomy, but if God still wants to have children sure he can still get us pregnant" Does God wants to bless someone that doesn't want it? And what do you tell your child later, we didn't really wanted you, but here you are. I see that as not trusting the Lord with all our heart and In all our ways.

@freeatlast

As for a married couple who are seeking to limit their family size through natural means I see no reason to think it goes against the Lord's will, but I would be open to hear how and why if some feel it does..

I guess I would say to that "we" know better than God. IF we trust God He knows much better than we do, also we shoud notice that children are blessings from God and we should treat them as that.

@abcgrad94

The Bible has lots to say about providing for one's own family. Based on that, I say, if you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em.

I strongly believe that God will provide for all our needs, we all know about George Mueller, God provided for him and hundreds of orphans on daily basis, as for people that abusing public system they need to recheck thier walk with the Lord., but to say I won't have childen because "I" don't think I can support them, again that is "US" relying on our selves not on God.

Let me be clear, I believe that God is giver of all life, Bible is clear that Children are blessings from the Lord and that we shoud have quiver full of them. We trust God in all our ways, but when it comes to children "we know better" why is that? why can't we just trust the Lord and give it all to him, He wants the best for us, we need to remember he is our Heavenly Father! But instead we teach to "use circumstances" or are you "financially stable" to have children right now and many more.

I think I will do a deeper research on when and how "family planning/contraceptives" infiltrated the church.

 

[Oldtimer]

I strongly believe that God will provide for all our needs, we all know about George Mueller, God provided for him and hundreds of orphans on daily basis, as for people that abusing public system they need to recheck thier walk with the Lord., but to say I won't have childen because "I" don't think I can support them, again that is "US" relying on our selves not on God.

Let me be clear, I believe that God is giver of all life, Bible is clear that Children are blessings from the Lord and that we shoud have quiver full of them. We trust God in all our ways, but when it comes to children "we know better" why is that? why can't we just trust the Lord and give it all to him, He wants the best for us, we need to remember he is our Heavenly Father! But instead we teach to "use circumstances" or are you "financially stable" to have children right now and many more.

I think I will do a deeper research on when and how "family planning/contraceptives" infiltrated the church.

I'd like to see your research results.

The phrase "go forth and multiply" from scripture echo's in my thoughts as I've read this thread. I don't remember anywhere where there's a qualifier added -- "go forth and multiply", except .....

If there is a qualifier situation/example, please let me know.

Bringing in modern ways to control birth as a reason is like saying God's word doesn't apply because we now have xyz that didn't exist when God inspired the recording of His word. God didn't know that today we'd have xyz and didn't know that we'll have tomorrow's abc?

What yardstick do we use to judge whether we or anyone else can "afford" to have children? Amount of money in the bank? House with separate bedrooms for each child? Whether we feed them beans and rice or steak and caviar? Ability to buy disposable diapers vs washing/re-using cloth ones?

I was one of 5 children who grew up on a sharecropper farm with an income well under any modern "poverty level" income. Yes, people said my parents shouldn't have had that many children because they couldn't afford them. Yet, we had a roof over our heads, food on the table, and clothing for our bodies. Our parents provided for us, as the Bible dictates.

By today's standards (yardstick) we didn't have a nice home, stylish clothes, chicken McNuggets, and personal cell phones by age 5, nor baby-sitter TV and video games. There were many nutritious meals that are the equivalent of beans and rice. Plus, our parents provided much for us that didn't involve material possessions or dollars and cents.

For those advocating prevent the birth of children we can't "afford", which one(s) of my brothers and sisters should my parents have chosen to omit? Myself? If God had deemed anyone of us to be unneeded for His purposes, conception would not have taken place.

Before closing, my parents did not accept one cent of welfare. What little there was available, in my youth, compared to today's "entitlement" programs, tax credits, etc. They held a very poor opinion of those who chose welfare when they were capable of earning a living for themselves. OTOH, they gave, of what we had, to others who were indeed unable to provide for themselves.

In closing, should your parents have chosen to avoid your conception because of finances or any other reason? (your = each reader of this thread) Would it be blibical if they had chosen to interfere with God's plan for your life?

 

[annsni]

I agree it's the attitude but you can also change around what you have said here to make it different. "We weren't planning to have any more kids but God snuck you in and like everything, He knows way more than we do and I'm SO glad He gave you to us."

My last child was not planned. Yes, we were open to more kids but every one of my other pregnancies were planned and timed to conceive (I have infertility and need medications to become pregnant) so when I found out I was 10 weeks pregnant with her, it was quite the surprise! She knows we call her our little "bonus" because God gave us a child after 8 years of infertility - and then a bonus 2 years later.

 

[Jerome]

Labinsk, here is a well-known voice from the past (an early 1900s politician) lamenting birth control:

---Humans think they are wise and humane when they try to limit procreation. They are delighted thinking they have thwarted the Divine Will by restricting their number of offpring. Man may exult in defying the eternal laws of procreation, but judgment will follow sooner or later---

 

[abcgrad94]

When I was in college, there were several families of married students who believed in "trusting the Lord" regarding birth control. Each of these families already had children and were on government assistance as the fathers were full-time students. Yet, the wives continued to get pregnant. They were then unable to care for the children they already had because the dad was a student and mom was sick, so the kids they already had were farmed out to other families to babysit and feed, free of charge, while mom and dad continued to pro-create. This was irresponsible and became a burden on others.

I know of a young couple who believe they are "trusting the Lord." Although neither of them had a job and no housing, they got married anyway and moved in with the groom's parents. The wife is now pregnant. A church member took pity on them and bought them an old trailer to live in. They sleep on the floor on an air mattress. While they are "trusting the Lord" they are living off the generosity of others and are clearly not ready to yet provide for a new baby.

Children are a blessing, yes. But having children and caring for them physically and spiritually is a RESPONSIBILITY. If other people (including the taxpayers) are feeding, housing, and clothing your family, I believe it is a sin to continue to pro-create under those conditions. Birth control can space out the pregnancies until a family is able to provide for its own.

Trusting the Lord is one thing. Letting other people pay for your fun is quite another.

 

[webdog]

I never understood how someone who has sex during a period the probability of conception is highest is "trusting the Lord" in the size of the family. He designed children to be conceived during this time, did He not? Not all methods of birth control are abortifacients (condoms, essure, vasectomy, etc.)

I find it comical we plan every aspect of our child's upbringing...yet it is not "trusting the Lord" to plan on the size of our family.

 

[Don]

How about those that are saved later in life, and made decisions prior to salvation that affect family planning? i.e., vasectomy before being saved?

(on a side note, I was one of those people; after we were saved, my wife started praying for another child. Of course, still being new to it all, I was saddened about my decision that made it a biological improbability. About 10-11 months later, my second daughter was born. Then I made the decision to have a reversal; about 10 months later, my second son was born. My wife prayed for more children, but God didn't "open the womb" any more after that.)

 

[Salty]

...Children are a blessing, yes. But having children and caring for them physically and spiritually is a RESPONSIBILITY. If other people (including the taxpayers) are feeding, housing, and clothing your family, I believe it is a sin to continue to pro-create under those conditions. Birth control can space out the pregnancies until a family is able to provide for its own. ...

Fully agree

 

[mandym]

We could not come up with a single reason, but being selfish and not wholly trusting God.

Do you sit home and "wholly' trust God to provide an income for you or do you get up and go to work?

 

[Arbo]

Children are a blessing, yes. But having children and caring for them physically and spiritually is a RESPONSIBILITY. If other people (including the taxpayers) are feeding, housing, and clothing your family, I believe it is a sin to continue to pro-create under those conditions. Birth control can space out the pregnancies until a family is able to provide for its own.

Trusting the Lord is one thing. Letting other people pay for your fun is quite another.

A second to Salty's :thumbsup:.