Fear or Peace?

[John of Japan]

On another thread, premillennialists were accused of trafficking in fear. I was urged to go get out of my ivory tower and go to Facebook, of all things, to learn the truth. Well, frankly I've never seen any good theology on FB.

At any rate, I also have an in-law who always tries to get me to accept his pre-wrath position. He is worried that I will not be ready for the Tribulation when it comes. He thinks our students will fall apart during the Tribulation because it will catch them by surprise. Persecution will destroy them.

Here's the thing. As any evangelical Bible college should, we teach our students to walk with God--the "Christ walk" as folks used to call it. If you are walking with Jesus daily in prayer and Bible study, you will be prepared if there is a tribulation or not. You will be prepared for persecution, which is no doubt coming soon in America. If you are walking with Christ He will be with you no matter what, and He will comfort you and give you strength. This is a wonderful thing to know in these troubled times. If a premillennialist is not walking with Jesus, well sure, he will be in fear. But that's true no matter what your eschatology is.

Please permit a personal testimony. Just before Christmas in 2019 I came down with diverticulitis and was in the hospital for three days. They then discharged me, telling me I'd have to have surgery eventually. However, the very next day my intestines burst, and poison went all through my body. I had intense pain and fever, so my wife took me again to the emergency room. They examined me and decided that I needed immediate emergency surgery. In God's providence, there was a surgical team just finishing up, so on Christmas Eve I had major surgery. (I had a follow-up surgery in June last year, but that's another story.)

After the surgery I had blood clots and other complications, so I was kept in the hospital for almost three weeks. Physically that was the most difficult time of my entire life, but Jesus was with me in an incredible way. I had amazing peace all the time I was in the hospital in a way I've never experienced before. It was the veritable "valley of the shadow of death" the Psalmist spoke of. I can't describe how wonderful it was to be in that hospital bed with tubes stuck in various places in my body. God is so good.

So, if in these troubled times you are suffering, you are persecuted, you are sick, you are lonely, you are discouraged--walk with God! Go to Him in prayer and unburden your whole heart. Open the Word of God and let it fill you. If you have believed in Jesus Christ as your Savior, He is with you. The Holy Spirit in your heart is the Comforter and the Helper (two meanings of the Greek word), and will be with you.

 

[Iconoclast]

On another thread, premillennialists were accused of trafficking in fear. I was urged to go get out of my ivory tower and go to Facebook, of all things, to learn the truth. Well, frankly I've never seen any good theology on FB.

At any rate, I also have an in-law who always tries to get me to accept his pre-wrath position. He is worried that I will not be ready for the Tribulation when it comes. He thinks our students will fall apart during the Tribulation because it will catch them by surprise. Persecution will destroy them.

Here's the thing. As any evangelical Bible college should, we teach our students to walk with God--the "Christ walk" as folks used to call it. If you are walking with Jesus daily in prayer and Bible study, you will be prepared if there is a tribulation or not. You will be prepared for persecution, which is no doubt coming soon in America. If you are walking with Christ He will be with you no matter what, and He will comfort you and give you strength. This is a wonderful thing to know in these troubled times. If a premillennialist is not walking with Jesus, well sure, he will be in fear. But that's true no matter what your eschatology is.

Please permit a personal testimony. Just before Christmas in 2019 I came down with diverticulitis and was in the hospital for three days. They then discharged me, telling me I'd have to have surgery eventually. However, the very next day my intestines burst, and poison went all through my body. I had intense pain and fever, so my wife took me again to the emergency room. They examined me and decided that I needed immediate emergency surgery. In God's providence, there was a surgical team just finishing up, so on Christmas Eve I had major surgery. (I had a follow-up surgery in June last year, but that's another story.)

After the surgery I had blood clots and other complications, so I was kept in the hospital for almost three weeks. Physically that was the most difficult time of my entire life, but Jesus was with me in an incredible way. I had amazing peace all the time I was in the hospital in a way I've never experienced before. It was the veritable "valley of the shadow of death" the Psalmist spoke of. I can't describe how wonderful it was to be in that hospital bed with tubes stuck in various places in my body. God is so good.

So, if in these troubled times you are suffering, you are persecuted, you are sick, you are lonely, you are discouraged--walk with God! Go to Him in prayer and unburden your whole heart. Open the Word of God and let it fill you. If you have believed in Jesus Christ as your Savior, He is with you. The Holy Spirit in your heart is the Comforter and the Helper (two meanings of the Greek word), and will be with you.

Hello John,
Thanks for sharing this testimony Of God never leaving or forsaking us.
At the end of Matthew 28 Jesus promised He is with us...."all the days"

That being said, I think when people mention "fear" in the premill system, it is not a stable presentation they are speaking about.
We have both seen some of those old movies that were shown in Churches
Distant Thunder,A Thief in the Night,Left Behind, etc.

The idea was to show how bad it was going to be after the church is "raptured out".
In one scene Grandma is baking cookies, in the next she disappears, then antichrist storm troopers are marching down the street demanding people receive the mark of the Beast.
No one expects you to defend these movies, and the follow up message to hurry and save a few souls before it is to late. Nevertheless, many of us have sat through these kind of presentations made by sincere people.
That is what they are offering your way.
I did not see your name as producer or director of such misguided movies, but they are still there, in fact let me see if I can locate a few, in case you never saw such things while in Japan.

 

[John of Japan]

Hello John,
Thanks for sharing this testimony Of God never leaving or forsaking us.
At the end of Matthew 28 Jesus promised He is with us...."all the days"

That being said, I think when people mention "fear" in the premill system, it is not a stable presentation they are speaking about.
We have both seen some of those old movies that were shown in Churches
Distant Thunder,A Thief in the Night,Left Behind, etc.

The idea was to show how bad it was going to be after the church is "raptured out".
In one scene Grandma is baking cookies, in the next she disappears, then antichrist storm troopers are marching down the street demanding people receive the mark of the Beast.
No one expects you to defend these movies, and the follow up message to hurry and save a few souls before it is to late. Nevertheless, many of us have sat through these kind of presentations made by sincere people.
That is what they are offering your way.
I did not see your name as producer or director of such misguided movies, but they are still there, in fact let me see if I can locate a few, in case you never saw such things while in Japan.

Yeah, thanks. That helps me get a handle on whatever they are talking about. That's the popular version of premillennialism, not mine. Mine is the serious version. Plus, I can't fault people for wanting to win souls, and I understand the Left Behind movies (which I have not seen) have had a lot of conversions. The media are a powerful tool.

 

[Iconoclast]

Yeah, thanks. That helps me get a handle on whatever they are talking about. That's the popular version of premillennialism, not mine. Mine is the serious version. Plus, I can't fault people for wanting to win souls, and I understand the Left Behind movies (which I have not seen) have had a lot of conversions. The media are a powerful tool.

These movies were sincere attempts to try and get people thinking of the ungodly world system and how it could be possible to be overwhelmed by evil persons.
it lacked as you say the serious version.
I actually brought a whole bible study group to one of these events. I was almost embarrased as I felt it made a caricature of such a serious issue.
If you have spare time and view any of them you will see what I mean.
Eventually you could use it to let your students see what not to do. I might watch one to remind myself to see how bad it was.
I know you are biblically structured and when they were rolling these things out, you were already focused on preparing for the mission field.
I saw about 4-5 different ones, I did not know what I do now.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Perhaps the perception is that if tribulation comes and one is not raptured and thus spared, then God did not deem that person worthy.

But Christians have historically experienced terrible outbreaks of persecution under violent and vile totalitarian regimes.

If there is a worthy fear here, perhaps it should be that one has not suffered enough for the sake of Christ.

 

[Yeshua1]

These movies were sincere attempts to try and get people thinking of the ungodly world system and how it could be possible to be overwhelmed by evil persons.
it lacked as you say the serious version.
I actually brought a whole bible study group to one of these events. I was almost embarrased as I felt it made a caricature of such a serious issue.
If you have spare time and view any of them you will see what I mean.
Eventually you could use it to let your students see what not to do. I might watch one to remind myself to see how bad it was.
I know you are biblically structured and when they were rolling these things out, you were already focused on preparing for the mission field.
I saw about 4-5 different ones, I did not know what I do now.

There shall be really hard times in the end times though!

 

[Iconoclast]

There shall be really hard times in the end times though!

where does it say that?
Jesus said it will be business as usual
mt.24:38-39....

 

[Yeshua1]

where does it say that?
Jesus said it will be business as usual
mt.24:38-39....

Time of great tribulation as the World has never seen, and would be shortened for sake of his elect, and that was NOT AD 70!

 

[Iconoclast]

Time of great tribulation as the World has never seen, and would be shortened for sake of his elect, and that was NOT AD 70!

what verse?

 

[Yeshua1]

what verse?

Matthew 24:21

 

[Iconoclast]

Matthew 24:21

That is clearly about 70 ad.You claimed it was not.
Do you obey the mosaic sabbath as the 1 st century jews did...vs 20.pray that your flight be not I. The winter or the SABBATH...
Explain please or produce another verse.
Explain also my 24:29-34....vs 34...THIS GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS AWAY TILL ALL THESE THINGS TAKE PLACE.
Also explain verse 29

 

[Yeshua1]

That is clearly about 70 ad.You claimed it was not.
Do you obey the mosaic sabbath as the 1 st century jews did...vs 20.pray that your flight be not I. The winter or the SABBATH...
Explain please or produce another verse.
Explain also my 24:29-34....vs 34...THIS GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS AWAY TILL ALL THESE THINGS TAKE PLACE.
Also explain verse 29

I see Jesus answering the Apostles, and he mixed in the AD 70 soon to come, and the future Second Coming great tribulation yet to happen!

 

[Iconoclast]

ok
now the sabbath?

then vs.29..

 

[Iconoclast]

I see Jesus answering the Apostles, and he mixed in the AD 70 soon to come, and the future Second Coming great tribulation yet to happen!

So....at first you deny it had anything to do with 70ad.
Then you pull out the Double-fulfillment card even though the text does not suggest it in any way.
Now you know you cannot address this with a tweet, so you disappear???
vs29..what is that describing?

 

[Yeshua1]

So....at first you deny it had anything to do with 70ad.
Then you pull out the Double-fulfillment card even though the text does not suggest it in any way.
Now you know you cannot address this with a tweet, so you disappear???

Not disappeared, just busy, but would say that we know that the Antichrist has not yet appeared, as jesus did not return to slay him yet!

 

[kyredneck]

we know that the Antichrist has not yet appeared

???

18 Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.
22 Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, even he that denieth the Father and the Son. 1 Jn 2

7 For many deceivers are gone forth into the world, even they that confess not that Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 2 Jn 1

I've no doubt these were the very 'antichrists' that Paul warned of:

28 Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood.
29 I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock;
30 and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. Acts 20

And that Jude warned of:

3 Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in privily, even they who were of old written of beforehand unto this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

 

[tyndale1946]

???

18 Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.
22 Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, even he that denieth the Father and the Son. 1 Jn 2

7 For many deceivers are gone forth into the world, even they that confess not that Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 2 Jn 1

I've no doubt these were the very 'antichrists' that Paul warned of:

28 Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood.
29 I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock;
30 and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. Acts 20

And that Jude warned of:

3 Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in privily, even they who were of old written of beforehand unto this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

This is not for Kentucky and some other brethren I know on this board... Fear mongers seem to run rampant on this board... There is more talk of a vengeful God, than a loving one... A loving one that sent his Son Jesus the Christ in the world to die for us... As soon as Adam sinned there was a remedy... All you naysayers... You need to talk more of the Father God that gave you... The Son of God, Jesus Christ who saved you and The Holy Spirit that changed you (you didn't birth yourself) and let you know, you are one of his, grace wrought, blood bought, Son or Daughter of the most high God... I fear God, not a fear, that God is going to snap his fingers and snuff me out but that I will not live up all he has done for me, in my life... I try to serve him the best I can, sometimes I fail and start again, sometimes I win!... Its called discipleship!... Brother Glen

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

 

[Iconoclast]

Not disappeared, just busy, but would say that we know that the Antichrist has not yet appeared, as jesus did not return to slay him yet!

ok, but what does that mean have to do with the mention of the sabbath?
what does that have to do with verse29?

 

[kyredneck]

we know that the Antichrist has not yet appeared, as jesus did not return to slay him yet!

Did you catch that Yesh?:
18 Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour. 1 Jn 2

And He did indeed slay 'the man of sin':

40 When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will let out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner; This was from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And he that falleth on this stone shall be broken to pieces: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will scatter him as dust.
45 And when the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. Mt 21

 

[Yeshua1]

Did you catch that Yesh?:
18 Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour. 1 Jn 2

And He did indeed slay 'the man of sin':

40 When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will let out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner; This was from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And he that falleth on this stone shall be broken to pieces: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will scatter him as dust.
45 And when the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. Mt 21

There is the spirit of antichrist, many antichrists, but that final One has yet to appear!