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Featured Featured Where did the Wrath of God go? Part 3

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JonC, Jul 7, 2022.

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  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    What does Jesus saying to us the new Covenant based upon his blood and sacrifice mean to you?
     
    #41 JesusFan, Jul 13, 2022
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Not, it isn't.

    When you are wrathful against somebody, but you forgive them, where do you keep that wrath?

    Do you put your unused wrath in your wallet? In a drawer? Do you have to pour it on somebody sooner or later? Do you hang it in your closet or under your bed?

    Where do you put your wrath until you can use it?
     
    #42 JonC, Jul 13, 2022
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Hebrews 9:27–28 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
    28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him
     
    #43 JonC, Jul 13, 2022
  4. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    God wrath must be propitiated and atoned for, as we have incurred a sin debt to God, and even he cannot just forgive us without someone being put to death as judgement in our stead!
     
    #44 JesusFan, Jul 13, 2022
  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Forgiveness for our sins is based upon his death and sacrifice in our stead!
     
    #45 JesusFan, Jul 13, 2022
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Where do you put your unused wrath?
     
    #46 JonC, Jul 13, 2022
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    If you stop being angry, where does your wrath go....where do you put it?
     
    #47 JonC, Jul 13, 2022
  8. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    #48 Martin Marprelate, Jul 13, 2022
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    #49 JonC, Jul 13, 2022
  10. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    I am not God, so no need to have my wrath propitiated by someone else before can offer forgiveness
     
    #50 JesusFan, Jul 14, 2022
  11. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    His wrath is a tangible aspect that was against all of us here before were saved, how did that wrath get paid for?
     
    #51 JesusFan, Jul 14, 2022
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Wrath is not tangible.
    I get that, but where do you keep your wrath until it is used?
     
    #52 JonC, Jul 14, 2022
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    @JesusFan

    Here is the issue.

    God's wrath is upon the wicked.

    God's wrath will be poured out on the wicked at Judgment.

    The wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God.


    You ask, where did God's wrath towards us go.

    That is a nonsense question.

    We are no longer the wicked who will not inherit the kingdom of God. We are reborn, cleansed.
     
    #53 JonC, Jul 14, 2022
  14. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    That is precisely my point.
    It is no use asking where your wrath or mine or @JesusFan's goes. God is not like us.
    God's wrath is against sinners, and we are all by nature objects of wrath because we are all sinners.
    Now, see if you can work it out from there.
     
    #54 Martin Marprelate, Jul 14, 2022
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. The problem is you make wrath into something it is not...a thing.

    Scripture tells us that God's wrath is against the wicked and will be poured out on the Day of Judgment for the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Instead you choose to believe a myth that God's wrath is a thing that must be disposed of for us to be forgiven. And you do not see this because you are blinded by the philosophy you allowed to carry you away from God's Word.
     
    #55 JonC, Jul 14, 2022
  16. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I don't intend to prolong this discussion; I don't think it is edifying, but I must make two points:
    You are being hypocritical. On another thread, you insisted (wrongly) that atonement meant reconciliation and went so far as to try and show what 'atonement' meant in the 15th Century, while blithely ignoring various cntexts that showed that atonement leads to reconciliation but they are not thesame thing.
    First of all, you translate the verse as if Jesus were one of several sureties. Does the context lead you to that conclusion? Jesus is Surety (gurantee, guarantor) of a better covenant. True, ἔγγυος is anarthrous, but so is iesus. Is there more than one Jesus?
    But the context is not unrelated. The surrounding verses make perfect sense if the Lord Jesus is surety of a better covenant, precisely because, as High Priest forever, He has made one sacrifice of Himself (Hebrews 7:27; cf. 10:12). He has done, as Surety, everything necessary to reconcile us to God, unlike the other priests who had to offer up sacricices continually for thhemseves as well as the people..
     
    #56 Martin Marprelate, Jul 14, 2022
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You are welcome incorrect. My statement is that the word "atonement" literally means "reconciliation". But it takes no more than a basic understanding of the English language, of the Greek word used, or a dictionary to understand that. No great lengths at all.

    I agree the surrounding verses make perfect sense if the Lord Jesus is guarantee of a better covenant, precisely because, as High Priest forever, He has made one sacrifice of Himself. That was why I was asking you if you understood.
     
    #57 JonC, Jul 14, 2022
  18. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    In order to Holy God to be able to freely justify and redeem us as lost sinners, His divine wrath towards us MUST be propitiated first, where did that happen per your system?
     
    #58 JesusFan, Jul 14, 2022
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Biblically, Christ is the Propitiation for the sins of the world.
     
    #59 JonC, Jul 14, 2022
  20. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Just for those whom God intended to be saved by His death, as its particular redemption and atonement
     
    #60 JesusFan, Jul 15, 2022
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