Federal Response Not as Portrayed

freedom's cause · Sep 18, 2005

corruption everywhere surely they will not give money to those corrupt officials that were running things before Katrina somebody wake-up
would not doubt that some money is going to the terrorists thru companies vying for government contracts to rebuild New Orleans please keep an eye on this fiasco We should use Iraqi oil money to rebuild America after all I am sure they owe us unpaid loans someone look this up

freedom's cause · Sep 18, 2005

man wait till you see this

http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=1&p=8231&s2=19

freedom's cause · Sep 18, 2005

the president could have declared martial law

all banks could have been closed the new world order could have began in America President Bush must not be the Anti-Christ just a thought for the conspirancy bunch

OldRegular · Sep 19, 2005

I believe very strongly that this country was established as a Constitutional Republic with the proper role of the Federal government being limited to defense and a very few regulatory issues. Those days are long past with the states abdicating much of their authority to get the Fed's largess.

If the Fed's are going to take money out of my pocket, my children's and my grand children's pockets to fund rebuilding in NO they are obligated to see that it is spent both wisely and honestly.

I still believe that the roll of the government should be limited to repair of the infrastructure only and no money should be spent to restore anything below sea level.

poncho · Sep 20, 2005

Originally posted by OldRegular:
I believe very strongly that this country was established as a Constitutional Republic with the proper role of the Federal government being limited to defense and a very few regulatory issues. Those days are long past with the states abdicating much of their authority to get the Fed's largess.

If the Fed's are going to take money out of my pocket, my children's and my grand children's pockets to fund rebuilding in NO they are obligated to see that it is spent both wisely and honestly.

I still believe that the roll of the government should be limited to repair of the infrastructure only and no money should be spent to restore anything below sea level.
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This is something we can see eye to eye on OR. Unfortunately the federal government (R's & D's) is contolled by globalists that see America as another nation state in a long line of nation states to be controlled by them.

OCC · Sep 21, 2005

Originally posted by OldRegular:
I believe very strongly that this country was established as a Constitutional Republic with the proper role of the Federal government being limited to defense and a very few regulatory issues. Those days are long past with the states abdicating much of their authority to get the Fed's largess.

If the Fed's are going to take money out of my pocket, my children's and my grand children's pockets to fund rebuilding in NO they are obligated to see that it is spent both wisely and honestly.

I still believe that the roll of the government should be limited to repair of the infrastructure only and no money should be spent to restore anything below sea level.
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I actually agree with O.R. here.

dragoon, you said some pretty shocking things just up above. Do you believe in just letting these people drift along in life with NOTHING? For cryin out loud, they lost their homes, jobs, everything! When you say "would the government give us new land", etc. it sounds as if you are only concerned about yourself. That's conservatism though eh?

Nobody (at least myself anyway) would want the government to do everything for them. But they would like a CHANCE. Joseph (prime minister of Egypt) provided enough food to last a whole famine for the people...but everyone forgets that...or they ignore it every time I mention it.

You do know what becomes of people who are never given a chance don't you? Everybody say...criminal.

poncho · Sep 21, 2005

I agree with OR on this also KJ. I also agree with Dragoon. If we were to expect government to do everything for us they would be only to happy to oblige (1) us.

OCC · Sep 21, 2005

Yeah...I don't expect nor want the government to do everything for me. But when I want a hand UP so that I won't have to depend on the government I believe I should get it. That is my right as a citizen I believe.

OldRegular · Sep 22, 2005

Originally posted by King James:
Yeah...I don't expect nor want the government to do everything for me. But when I want a hand UP so that I won't have to depend on the government I believe I should get it. That is my right as a citizen I believe.
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I don't believe that is in the US Constitution.

OCC · Sep 23, 2005

I don't care what's in your Constitution. I am Canadian. But it's nice to see your godly attitude on display...let me know what Jesus thinks of it eh?

BTW, I do believe it is in your Constitution...just to humour you. There's a little statement about "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Or is that in one of your other gazillion pledges/constitutions/bill of rights thing-a-majiggy's that many conservatives believe only applies to them?

poncho · Sep 23, 2005

Life is given by God, liberty is the opposition to government coercion guarded jealously by a well informed and armed citizenry, the pursuit of happiness is the responsiblity of the individual pursuer not the government. Least, that's the way I see it.

How soon we forget history... Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington
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[ September 23, 2005, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: poncho ]

OCC · Sep 23, 2005

All true poncho. But...life is to be allowed to LIVE, liberty is the freedom to better oneself (someone who has earned the government's HAND UP has a right to it), and the pursuit of happiness is tied to liberty. You can't be happy if you are dependent on the government...but that's just what they want of us...or else they would GIVE the hand up. Instead...they give the handouts to those who DON'T want to better themselves and NOT depend on gov't. handouts. Follow?

carpro · Sep 23, 2005

Originally posted by King James:
Yeah...I don't expect nor want the government to do everything for me. But when I want a hand UP so that I won't have to depend on the government I believe I should get it. That is my right as a citizen I believe.
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You ever been to New Orleans?

Many of those citizens have been getting a hand up all their lives. They don't know anything else. Every time the hand turns loose, they sit back down and wait for the hand again.

You don't have to be around many of the victims for very long before you begin to see traits that are unsettling.

They complain about where they were sleeping. They complain about the food. Thay complain about the clothes they are given. When offered a job, they turn it down. When asked to help keep the facility they are living in clean, they just walk off and ignore you and smash their next cigarette butt under their heel on the floor they won't help keep clean..

It's hard to love people like that yet we are commanded to do so. Sometimes it takes a real effort and some ernest prayer time.

Now before anyone says not all of them are like that, you are exactly right , but too many are.

OldRegular · Sep 23, 2005

Originally posted by King James:
I don't care what's in your Constitution. I am Canadian. But it's nice to see your godly attitude on display...let me know what Jesus thinks of it eh?

BTW, I do believe it is in your Constitution...just to humour you. There's a little statement about "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Or is that in one of your other gazillion pledges/constitutions/bill of rights thing-a-majiggy's that many conservatives believe only applies to them?
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I hope you are not one of those Canadians who are fleeing the hand up of the Canadian medical system and flooding the northern hospitals in this country.

OCC · Sep 23, 2005

No I'm not OR. I know...if I were you would think I should be tarred and feathered. And since you just wish to argue, consider yourself ignored.

carpro, no I've never been to New Orleans. I know that many people are like that. But many are not as well. I am not going to explain my whole situation to you but I just wish I had a HAND UP (that I have earned, through paying employment insurance) so that I could make a life for myself. I don't WANT to depend on the government.

I have a dead end job that I'd be better OFF depending on the government but I don't want to. I just want a hand up that I have earned. I don't know if anyone will understand where I'm coming from unless I explained everything to them. I don't care to do that though.

Bro. Curtis · Sep 23, 2005

I got my degree in the Navy. When I got out of the Navy, I found out my 5-digit bank account had been misappropriated by a relative. I built myself up from nothing, several times. I have made and lost livelyhoods, had huge bank accounts, and been a cocaine addict with absolutey nothing.

I very strongly urge you to read the parable of the talents, and study it. There are several messages there.

Anyways, the moral of the story is, I'm glad I have worked hard, and can enjoy the fruits, for the time being. God may take it all away tomorrow. If he does, I will not scream for the government to help.

OldRegular · Sep 23, 2005

Originally posted by OldRegular:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05254/568876.stm

Jack Kelly: No shame

Jack Kelly is national security writer for the Post-Gazette and The Blade of Toledo, Ohio (jkelly@post-gazette.com, 412-263-1476).

The federal response to Katrina was not as portrayed

Sunday, September 11, 2005

It is settled wisdom among journalists that the federal response to the devastation wrought by Hurricane Katrina was unconscionably slow.

"Mr. Bush's performance last week will rank as one of the worst ever during a dire national emergency," wrote New York Times columnist Bob Herbert in a somewhat more strident expression of the conventional wisdom.

But the conventional wisdom is the opposite of the truth.

Jason van Steenwyk is a Florida Army National Guardsman who has been mobilized six times for hurricane relief. He notes that:

"The federal government pretty much met its standard time lines, but the volume of support provided during the 72-96 hour was unprecedented. The federal response here was faster than Hugo, faster than Andrew, faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne."

For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in strength on the scene in Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in 1992. But after Katrina, there was a significant National Guard presence in the afflicted region in three.

Journalists who are long on opinions and short on knowledge have no idea what is involved in moving hundreds of tons of relief supplies into an area the size of England in which power lines are down, telecommunications are out, no gasoline is available, bridges are damaged, roads and airports are covered with debris, and apparently have little interest in finding out.

So they libel as a "national disgrace" the most monumental and successful disaster relief operation in world history.

I write this column a week and a day after the main levee protecting New Orleans breached. In the course of that week:

More than 32,000 people have been rescued, many plucked from rooftops by Coast Guard helicopters.

The Army Corps of Engineers has all but repaired the breaches and begun pumping water out of New Orleans.

Shelter, food and medical care have been provided to more than 180,000 refugees.

Journalists complain that it took a whole week to do this. A former Air Force logistics officer had some words of advice for us in the Fourth Estate on his blog, Moltenthought:

"We do not yet have teleporter or replicator technology like you saw on 'Star Trek' in college between hookah hits and waiting to pick up your worthless communications degree while the grown-ups actually engaged in the recovery effort were studying engineering.

"The United States military can wipe out the Taliban and the Iraqi Republican Guard far more swiftly than they can bring 3 million Swanson dinners to an underwater city through an area the size of Great Britain which has no power, no working ports or airports, and a devastated and impassable road network.

"You cannot speed recovery and relief efforts up by prepositioning assets (in the affected areas) since the assets are endangered by the very storm which destroyed the region.

"No amount of yelling, crying and mustering of moral indignation will change any of the facts above."

"You cannot just snap your fingers and make the military appear somewhere," van Steenwyk said.

Guardsmen need to receive mobilization orders; report to their armories; draw equipment; receive orders and convoy to the disaster area. Guardsmen driving down from Pennsylvania or Navy ships sailing from Norfolk can't be on the scene immediately.

Relief efforts must be planned. Other than prepositioning supplies near the area likely to be afflicted (which was done quite efficiently), this cannot be done until the hurricane has struck and a damage assessment can be made. There must be a route reconnaissance to determine if roads are open, and bridges along the way can bear the weight of heavily laden trucks.

And federal troops and Guardsmen from other states cannot be sent to a disaster area until their presence has been requested by the governors of the afflicted states.

Exhibit A on the bill of indictment of federal sluggishness is that it took four days before most people were evacuated from the Louisiana Superdome.

The levee broke Tuesday morning. Buses had to be rounded up and driven from Houston to New Orleans across debris-strewn roads. The first ones arrived Wednesday evening. That seems pretty fast to me.

A better question -- which few journalists ask -- is why weren't the roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses in New Orleans utilized to take people out of the city before Katrina struck?

(Correction/Clarification: (Published 9/12/05) -- Hurricane Andrew struck Florida in 1992, not 2002.)
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Getting Back ON TOPIC.

Bro. Curtis · Sep 23, 2005

Sorry, O.R.

OldRegular · Sep 23, 2005

Reflooding of New Orleans demonstrates why the expenditure of taxpayer money

1. should be limited to repair of the infrastructure only and
2. should not be spent to restore anything below sea level or
3. should not be used to protect anything below sea level.

StraightAndNarrow · Sep 23, 2005

Bush is going to whitewash this just like he did 9/11.
*************************************************
Katrina
Bush Taps White House Official to Lead Katrina Inquiry
by Don Gonyea

All Things Considered, September 20, 2005 ·

President Bush has named White House homeland security adviser Frances Townsend to lead a probe into the federal response to Hurricane Katrina. The choice drew fire from Democrats, who said Townsend could not be independent. Other efforts to create investigation panels have collapsed on Capitol Hill.

Federal Response Not as Portrayed

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