Feet In Concrete

[HAMel]

Before the foundations of the world it was decided that a Lamb would have to be sacrificed for the sins of said world. While animal sacrifices were necessary and performed by the priest(s) in accordance with God's Word for the atonement of sin(s), eventually a new dispensation was ushered in..., namely, Jesus. As you all know, Jesus would become that sacrifice once and for all.

Those who stirred up the people against Jesus and demanded his death (albeit a necessary evil) were those in positions of authority. The priests. These guys enjoyed their power; their position; their fine robes; their influence over their followers; their relationship with the Roman Empire; recognition for their eloquent public prayers, etc., etc., etc.

Basically, these Priests were 100 percent resistant to change!

I can hear it now. "I've been a Priest for the past 30 years; We've never done it that way before and there's no reason to change now; great grandpa Simon did it this way and that's good 'nuff for me; how dare this man come in here and try to change things..." and on it goes ad nauseam

Does this describe some members of your current congregation?

Certainly the message should never change but isn't this type of attitude really hurting the local congregation. Feet in concrete certainly contributed to that fateful day on the cross and where might those folks be today who were so resistant to His message of Change.

Young adults and teenagers we're trying to reach are into electronic gadgets. Many of the older folks don't even have any such gadgets beyond a TV remote. It's a new world out there.

No, we don't need a brass band with electric guitars supported with speakers the size of VW Beetles at the front of the church. We just need to get some of the older folks to realize their "feet in the concrete" attitude and encourage them to realize that what happen in great grandpa's day is fine for reminiscing, you know, like back when folks sat on the front porch and were in bed by 9 pm.

Change is like pulling hens teeth but it's something that must/should be encouraged from the pulpit.

 

[HAMel]

The Consequences for Refusing to Change

From 1900 to 1967, the Swiss were the leading watchmakers in the world. In 1967, when digital technology was patented, the Swiss rejected it in favor of the traditional ball bearings, gears, and mainsprings they had been using to make watches for decades. Unfortunately, however, the world was ready for this advance, and Seiko, a Japanese company, picked up the digital patent and became the leading watch manufacturer in the world almost overnight.

Fifty thousand of the 67,000 Swiss watchmakers went out of business because they refused to embrace this new technology. It was not until years later that the Swiss caught up and regained their position in the marketplace with the creation of Swatch watches.

 

[Crabtownboy]

The Consequences for Refusing to Change

From 1900 to 1967, the Swiss were the leading watchmakers in the world. In 1967, when digital technology was patented, the Swiss rejected it in favor of the traditional ball bearings, gears, and mainsprings they had been using to make watches for decades. Unfortunately, however, the world was ready for this advance, and Seiko, a Japanese company, picked up the digital patent and became the leading watch manufacturer in the world almost overnight.

Fifty thousand of the 67,000 Swiss watchmakers went out of business because they refused to embrace this new technology. It was not until years later that the Swiss caught up and regained their position in the marketplace with the creation of Swatch watches.

Rather like the buggy whip manufacturers in the late 19th and early 20th century as autos became the primary means of transportation.

 

[kyredneck]

"... We just need to get some of the older folks to realize their "feet in the concrete" attitude and encourage them to realize that what happen in great grandpa's day is fine for reminiscing, you know, like back when folks sat on the front porch and were in bed by 9 pm....."

So, first a change in these 'older folks' attitudes toward change, and then what? Specifically what other changes would you have them make?

 

[Salty]

Rather like the buggy whip manufacturers in the late 19th and early 20th century as autos became the primary means of transportation.

I see you are using Rush Limbaugh's example.

But back to the main OP

Some changes might be ok - but going to the extremes is another.

 

[quantumfaith]

I see you are using Rush Limbaugh's example.

But back to the main OP

Some changes might be ok - but going to the extremes is another.

Happy to be a Rush listener myself.

 

[pinoybaptist]

The Consequences for Refusing to Change

From 1900 to 1967, the Swiss were the leading watchmakers in the world. In 1967, when digital technology was patented, the Swiss rejected it in favor of the traditional ball bearings, gears, and mainsprings they had been using to make watches for decades. Unfortunately, however, the world was ready for this advance, and Seiko, a Japanese company, picked up the digital patent and became the leading watch manufacturer in the world almost overnight.

Fifty thousand of the 67,000 Swiss watchmakers went out of business because they refused to embrace this new technology. It was not until years later that the Swiss caught up and regained their position in the marketplace with the creation of Swatch watches.

And to this date of digital this and digital that, a watch certifiedly Swiss manufactured is still considered a better watch than a Seiko, Citizen, or Rado digital.
Or at the very least, a mark of sophistication.

 

[HAMel]

...some light bulbs might not be getting a full load of power.

What kind of change do I recommend..., after the fact?

I don't have a specific clue.

What comes to mind though is this man was dying with cancer and he finally called out to God..., "Lord God, why don't you send a cure for cancer?" The response was, "I did but she was aborted!"

There are a lot of very talented Christian individuals out there that, if given the chance could possibly cause any church to realize many blessings but run up against that attitude of, "...but that ain't 'da way we did it back 30 years ago."

Then, some of these very talented Christian individuals could easily be directed to another ministry simply because of that attitude of, "...but that ain't 'da way we did it back 30 years ago."

All of you will assure me the Lord wants to bless. So, let Him Bless. Get 'yer feet out of the concrete.

Rush Limbaugh? He has nothing to do with this.

 

[quantumfaith]

Here is (I think) a pertinent message to what I think is your point.

http://northpoint.org/messages/my-bad-church-experience/how-dare-we/

 

[Van]

Lets see, the old geezers want the whipper snappers to change,i.e. grow up. The whipper snappers want the old geezers to adjust to the new reality. Neither understands technological displacement, which renders the old ways obsolete.

Power struggles haunt our local assemblies, with each side saying their way is the most godly. And so it goes...

 

[exscentric]

35 years ago, as a 24 year old, I had the privilege of teaching the old folks class. I usually gave them a hard time about being old and useless. One Sunday it came up, "How can the older folks help in the church?"

I really gave them a hard time about how worthless they were and took chalk in hand and asked them what they could do in and for the church. In the next few minutes I had filled the large chalk board with all sorts of things they thought they could and would do if allowed.

Later I copied down the list and gave it to the pastor. He read it, laughed, threw it on the desk in disgust and told me I was a fool to think they would ever do anything.

I gave up giving old folks a hard time and started questioning the wisdom of pastors. I realize, one pastor in one church but when you need someone to blame for what is going on the quit ones are easy to blame.

Old folks might even have something to help the current church situation that they seem to quite often get blamed for.

And some research will show that there are a LOT of old geezers that do have and use TECH stuff. Not sure what using tech stuff has to do with feet in concrete.

The analogy isn't all that nice either - feet in concrete often refers to getting rid of someone in the east river.....

 

[righteousdude2]

Kinda reminds you of ....

Lets see, the old geezers want the whipper snappers to change,i.e. grow up. The whipper snappers want the old geezers to adjust to the new reality. Neither understands technological displacement, which renders the old ways obsolete.

Power struggles haunt our local assemblies, with each side saying their way is the most godly. And so it goes...[/QUOTE

..... the forum and different topics! :smilewinkgrin:

s

 

[exscentric]

Often wonder in these discussions why its the oldies that have their undies in a bunch instead of it being the youngins with their diapers in a bunch. BOTH seem to feel they are right.....

 

[salzer mtn]

Before the foundations of the world it was decided that a Lamb would have to be sacrificed for the sins of said world. While animal sacrifices were necessary and performed by the priest(s) in accordance with God's Word for the atonement of sin(s), eventually a new dispensation was ushered in..., namely, Jesus. As you all know, Jesus would become that sacrifice once and for all.

Those who stirred up the people against Jesus and demanded his death (albeit a necessary evil) were those in positions of authority. The priests. These guys enjoyed their power; their position; their fine robes; their influence over their followers; their relationship with the Roman Empire; recognition for their eloquent public prayers, etc., etc., etc.

Basically, these Priests were 100 percent resistant to change!

I can hear it now. "I've been a Priest for the past 30 years; We've never done it that way before and there's no reason to change now; great grandpa Simon did it this way and that's good 'nuff for me; how dare this man come in here and try to change things..." and on it goes ad nauseam

Does this describe some members of your current congregation?

Certainly the message should never change but isn't this type of attitude really hurting the local congregation. Feet in concrete certainly contributed to that fateful day on the cross and where might those folks be today who were so resistant to His message of Change.

Young adults and teenagers we're trying to reach are into electronic gadgets. Many of the older folks don't even have any such gadgets beyond a TV remote. It's a new world out there.

No, we don't need a brass band with electric guitars supported with speakers the size of VW Beetles at the front of the church. We just need to get some of the older folks to realize their "feet in the concrete" attitude and encourage them to realize that what happen in great grandpa's day is fine for reminiscing, you know, like back when folks sat on the front porch and were in bed by 9 pm.

Change is like pulling hens teeth but it's something that must/should be encouraged from the pulpit.

Is this just another Hollywood commercial that only shows young people in it ?

 

[canadyjd]

Before the foundations of the world it was decided that a Lamb would have to be sacrificed for the sins of said world......Those who stirred up the people against Jesus and demanded his death (albeit a necessary evil) were those in positions of authority. The priests. These guys enjoyed their power; their position; their fine robes; their influence over their followers; their relationship with the Roman Empire; recognition for their eloquent public prayers, etc., etc., etc.

Basically, these Priests were 100 percent resistant to change!

I can hear it now. "I've been a Priest for the past 30 years; We've never done it that way before and there's no reason to change now; great grandpa Simon did it this way and that's good 'nuff for me; how dare this man come in here and try to change things..." and on it goes ad nauseam

Does this describe some members of your current congregation?....Change is like pulling hens teeth but it's something that must/should be encouraged from the pulpit.

I am always uncomfortable when people compare themselves (or others) and the situations that they face to Jesus and the opposition that He faced.

Also, it seems unfair to declare someone a "Pharisee" (just like those who put Jesus to death no less) because they disagree with you about some non-essential element of worship.

No doubt, the tensions will run high on all sides with attitudes like this.

 

[HAMel]

canadyjd, you missed the point. People in churches that have been there for many years simply refuse to change. To relinquish their perceived power and importance. Obviously, the opposition that Jesus faced was much greater than anything we can imagine today..., or is it.

...try getting the old timers in your church to change their ways. It would be a tough row to hoe.

 

[canadyjd]

canadyjd, you missed the point. People in churches that have been there for many years simply refuse to change.

I did understand that point, and there is truth in what you are saying. It is always a balance to understand what is essential, what is tradition, and what is non-essential.

Obviously, the opposition that Jesus faced was much greater than anything we can imagine today..., or is it.

I'd be really surprised if I read about a bunch of old geezers dragging a young whipper snapper out and flogging him half to death and then crucifying Him because he wanted to set up a power point presentation with new music.

Yeah, I think the opposition that Jesus faced was substantially greater than what you were speaking of.... thus my discomfort at your comparison.

Again, I don't necessarily disagree with your point...it's the comparison to Jesus and the Pharisees that is out of place in the discussion, imho.

 

[HAMel]

Well canadyjd, please do try to find it in your heart to forgive me as I am totally distraught over causing you any distress over my comparison.

...in the meantime the beat goes on.

 

[exscentric]

Just some thoughts: To you they are wrong, you are right. To them you are wrong and they are right.

Both views seem equal. Why do you think you are the correct of two equals?

I also agree older folks like what they like, but it seems you like what you like as well. What makes you think what you have up your sleeve is right, correct, best, and needed. When you answer that present it to them and see what happens.

If you already have then rethink your own position and pray that one side or the other comes around.

 

[canadyjd]

Well canadyjd, please do try to find it in your heart to forgive me as I am totally distraught over causing you any distress over my comparison.

...in the meantime the beat goes on.

Brother, please try to understand my point.

When you compare a squabble within a church over new music or new technology to the opposition that Jesus faced in His time, you dishonor, imho, our Lord.

Don't be so flippant with the comparisons.

That said, good luck to you