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Feminism

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Gina B, Apr 1, 2006.

  1. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Double post.
     
  2. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    What you've done is establish that the law recognized a married man and woman to be one flesh, and the man to be the head of the woman.

    This is known in law as the Doctrine of Coverture, which is based squarely on the teaching of Paul in 1 Cor. 11. But what is seldom disclosed when making references to this, is that the Doctrine of Coverture also protected a woman from being sued in civil court.

    To say that women could not own property is simply inaccurate, seeing there was shortage of barronesses, many whose ownership and control of an estate were gained when they became widows. And your own evidence clearly shows that women had access to higher education.
     
  3. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Why would a woman be sued in civil court if she had no discrete assets to attach?

    Yes, women could own property, but they were not necessarily free to dispose of it, especially if they were married. The only way to have complete control of property was not to marry or to be a widow.

    Women had access to education at in some places, but not in most places. Harvard didn't educate women until 1879, but at Radcliffe, not Harvard.
     
  4. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    How can a husband be the head of some who does not "legally exist"?

    ..."her being and legal existence is suspended for the duration of the marriage..."

    This interpretation of marriage is not Biblical.

    Yes, yes, I know all about the man-made Doctrine of Coverture....but let's talk about the scripture you are citing.

    In 1 Corinthians chapter 11, the bible says that, "...nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord, for as the woman is of the man; even so is the man also by the woman, but ALL things of God."

    The Doctrine of Coverture, in it's defining a wife as "legally not existing" defies this part of 1 Corinthians chaper 11, in fact it has nothing to do with the bible at all.

    The Doctrine of Coverture has nothing to do with protecting a wife. She could not be sued, because she did not legally exist.

    But her husband could be sued. If she were driving a horse and buggy and ran over someone and broke his/her leg, she, as a non-existing person, could not be sued, but her husband could be sued.

    In the same manner as if one of his trees fell on a neighbor's house. He would be sued.

    Also, she could not sue someone, herself. If someone ran over her in a horse and buggy and broke her leg, she could not sue.

    But just as a husband could sue if a neighbor's tree fell on his house, he could sue because of damages to what he "owned"...his wife.

    The Doctrine of Coverture may sound "romantic" and "chivalrous", but because it negates the very existence of a wife, it is not Biblical.
     
  5. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

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    I meant to respond to this thread yesterday before the foray into Women's Rights. I'm going to post what I meant to then but with respect to the last few posts.

    Women's Rights (the right to vote, hold and sell property and control one's own finances and work) is not the same as feminism. Or should I say feminism of today. This feminism seeks not equality, but superiority.

    That being said, I believe that neither feminism or Women's Rights was what has led to the rise in acceptance of homosexuality. That I believe can be attributed to the so-called Sexual Revolution which "freed" both men and women to "explore" areas which God meant to stay between husband and wife. This sexual revolution happened long after women were granted the right to vote.

    Now Aaron, the Doctrine of Coverture wasn't based on scripture, but on scripture twisted by man in an attempt to give their wrongdoing a foundation.
     
  6. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder, Matthew 19:6.

    If you were to incorporate this doctrine in a statute concerning marriage, how would you do it? Would you keep the man and woman as two, or would you combine them into one entity, giving the head the power of attorney?

    But, you're getting to the bottom of the issue, and that is what the Scriptures say.
     
  7. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    To say that the Doctrine of Coverture is manmade, one has to say that a man and wife are really not one flesh, and that a woman ought not to have power on her head. (1 Cor. 11:10)

    This is what Feminism does.
     
  8. Petrel

    Petrel New Member

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    God bless it! :D
     
  9. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    God bless it! :D </font>[/QUOTE]Yaymen!

    After reading this, I've decided I'm going to be so femininistic that I'll put up a femailbox, no more of this assuming all boxes are all men! [​IMG]
     
  10. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    I've noticed no one took my challenge to suggest a statute that incorporated God's view of marriage.
     
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Well, then I'll suggest a law.

    The law would recognize that a man and a woman are one flesh. They no longer exist independently of each other. However, just as there is rank in the Godhead, and that God is the head of Christ(1 Cor. 11:3), so is the man the head of the woman. Therefore he would have the power of attorney in this union.

    It would also recognize that the man is to love his wife as his own body. Therefore, if he did not provide a living for her consistent with his status in society, she could bring him to court to coerce him to do so.

    Those are the basic things a law governing marriage would cover, and that is exactly what the Doctrine of Coverture did.
     
  12. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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  13. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Ok, Aaron, against my better judgement, I'll hop back on this tired old train with you. [​IMG]

    You said-
    Let's take me for example. I am a single woman, never married. I built a house that is paid for and in my name. I have a car whose title is in my name and it is paid for. I have various monies in mutual funds that are in my name. I own property that I pay taxes on. And I have a monthly income and I pay income tax and I pay health, home, and car insurance.

    Let's say I met a man tomorrow and married him within the year. If he were to have sole power of attorney in the marriage, then he could sell my house, my car, and my property without my consent.

    He could bar me from actively using my own money and trading my own mutual funds, because I would no longer possess them. He could take my money and buy a yacht if he wanted to and because he now has power of attorney over what was once my money, I could not bring suit against him.

    It's his money now, right?

    Stricty by marrying me, he would gain legal possession of properties and monies that he did not earn nor buy nor was bequeathed. And he would gain legal possession of them against the owner's will.

    Justify that to me.

    You also said-

    You have already stated that in this hypothetical law of yours that a wife has no legal rights to property, monies, or even her own children. If he has power of attorney in the marriage, then his sole word is law concerning any children produced by the marriage.

    And now you say that all he has to do is make sure that she gets good food to eat, a warm and comfortable shelter, clean clothes, adequate medical care, and a safe environment or she can petition a judge for him to provide her with the basics of "living".

    A "living". That's all she gets and she must totally rely on him for it and cannot earn it herself?

    Aaron, that is not wife....that is a pet dog!! :rolleyes: [​IMG]

    I regret jumping back into this conversation with you already! [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  14. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Prenuptial agreements and trusts are nothing new. If you feared the man you were marrying were so unscrupulous as to squander your resources, you could either put them in a trust before your marriage, or enter into a prenuptial agreement. But then, why would you marry such a lout?

    That's beside the point. How would you improve on the law while maintaining Christ's doctrine concerning marriage? [​IMG]
     
  15. Shiloh

    Shiloh New Member

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    Let's take me for example. I am a single woman, never married. I (met a man that) built a house that is paid for and in (his) name. (He has) a car whose title is in (his) name and it is paid for. (He has) various monies in mutual funds that are in (his) name. (He) owns property that (he) pays taxes on. And has a monthly income and pays income tax and health, home, and car insurance.

    Let's say I met a man tomorrow and married him within the year. If he were to have sole power of attorney in the marriage, then he could sell my house, my car, and my property without my consent.
    -----------------------------------------------
    Oh now lets see.......where does LOVE fit it this picture? [​IMG]
     
  16. Shiloh

    Shiloh New Member

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    Many moons ago when I married my wife "I" had a race car a snowmobile a horse and over $6,000.00 in savings. Do you know what "we" did? "We" sold the race car, the snowmobile and my horse and took "my" savings and built a house for "us". And you know what? We don't live in that house today but 35 years tomorrow we celebrate "together" the time we did. [​IMG]
     
  17. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Congratulations, Shiloh, on your anniversary! [​IMG]
     
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