"Few be there that find it"

[steaver]

Perfect example of False Christians among us...

After lying to Megan Kelly about giving Hillary the debate questions and declaring the charges against her was her being persecuted as a Christian, Self proclaimed Christian Donna Brazile tells her critics they can "go to he!!" Yes, fine Christian example...NOT!

There are so many people out there who believe they belong to Christ and they are so deceived.

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Rev 21:8)

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:44)

Do we realize out of all the people who claim to be Christian only a small portion have any clue what that actually means? Our evangelism in this country is left wanting. People have no idea what a true Christian is, they have no idea that faith in Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to be saved, they have no idea that ONLY true born-again Christians go to heaven and all the rest will go to he!!. Sadly, the RCC, which has the most worldwide influence on the definition of Christianity, is the one peddling the lie that a good person, or a good Muslim, will be saved without any faith in Jesus Christ at all.

 

[utilyan]

Perfect example of False Christians among us...

After lying to Megan Kelly about giving Hillary the debate questions and declaring the charges against her was her being persecuted as a Christian, Self proclaimed Christian Donna Brazile tells her critics they can "go to he!!" Yes, fine Christian example...NOT!

There are so many people out there who believe they belong to Christ and they are so deceived.

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Rev 21:8)

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:44)

Do we realize out of all the people who claim to be Christian only a small portion have any clue what that actually means? Our evangelism in this country is left wanting. People have no idea what a true Christian is, they have no idea that faith in Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to be saved, they have no idea that ONLY true born-again Christians go to heaven and all the rest will go to he!!. Sadly, the RCC, which has the most worldwide influence on the definition of Christianity, is the one peddling the lie that a good person, or a good Muslim, will be saved without any faith in Jesus Christ at all.

We Catholics are BIBLE BELIEVERS.
I believe in the Good Samaritan, teach us about the damned one.

While we are on the subject of peddling LIES.

We BIBLE BELIEVERS don't lie and pretend about FAKE RULES that don't exist in scriptures..

How about giving us that bible verse you swear exist, that scripture is the ONLY and FINAL authority in Christianity.

Don't give me runarounds about scripture being important and true, no one is denying that.

Tell us where it states your FAKE MADE UP RULE in the bible.

If you don't give us a verse that flat out states it, then quit "PEDDLING LIES".

 

[HankD]

utilyan : while I myself (a former Catholic) hold to the scripture as the final authority in the maters of faith and morals I don't see in steaver's post that he did similarly at that time (though I would guess he does). What he did insist upon is that there is no way to be saved apart from Jesus Christ.

Douay-Rheims John 14:6 Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

HankD

 

[steaver]

Tell us where it states your FAKE MADE UP RULE in the bible.

If you don't give us a verse that flat out states it, then quit "PEDDLING LIES".

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

There you go. Now tell us how Jesus Christ is peddling lies here.

 

[Adonia]

, they have no idea that ONLY true born-again Christians go to heaven and all the rest will go to he!!.

Let us all quiet ourselves with making statements like that and allow God, who is the ultimate judge of us all, decide who and who will not get to heaven. How a mere mortal like yourself can attempt to say how God will or will not ultimately act towards people who come before Him is beyond my comprehension.

 

[HankD]

Let us all quiet ourselves with making statements like that and allow God, who is the ultimate judge of us all, decide who and who will not get to heaven. How a mere mortal like yourself can attempt to know how God will or will not ultimately act towards people who come before Him is beyond my comprehension.

That part is absolutely true Adonia. I don't believe that is what anyone is doing.

We are the light of the world and as such we should direct people to Jesus as living epistles known and read of men giving the word of God to our brethren in Adam as the Spirit leads, warning them of the wrath to come. Giving forth the true unadulterated gospel of forgiveness of sin and eternal life through belief in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

HankD

 

[steaver]

How a mere mortal like yourself can attempt to say how God will or will not ultimately act towards people who come before Him is beyond my comprehension.

I only presented what God says in His Word. How you, as Christian, cannot comprehend what God has said is troubling indeed.

Here it is. It is found in John Chapter 3...John is one of the four Gospels found at the beginning of the NT.
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

These things can be easily verified if one studies the Scripture. You should do some research before you judge what another has said.

 

[utilyan]

Everyone has been given a measure of faith, and to whom much is given much is expected.
(bible lines can be provided^)

A perfect example of saved without Faith is PAUL himself. This is why its called perfect patience.


1 timothy 1

12I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, 13even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief; 14and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus. 15It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.16Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life. 17Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.


Paul was dead set on killing christians, He hated God a blasphemer, violent agressor, sadistic murderer, persecutor, Considers himself the WORST among people. This guy is hellbent on killing christians.

There is no prayer, there is no good deeds, there is absolutely no faith at work. Yet God's MERCY decides it is going to intervene.

Paul did not accept Jesus Christ as lord and savior, Paul did not have faith in Jesus, Paul had no regeneration.

The intervention itself is absolute mercy and there are plenty people here who would swear that a GOOD PERSON can't receive mercy from GOD, when the bible is clear that an ABSOLUTELY EVIL person can receive Mercy from God.

People are getting too puffed up Saying to yourself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, faithless to Jesus Christ or even like this despicable Muslim.

MODERN DAY PHARISEES. Looking for every reason to send folks to hell not let them in heaven, and don't even try to go themselves.


You know where all the raging gnashing of teeth is gonna happen is from everything God is going to let people "get away with" to the disappointment of religious fascists.

 

[steaver]

Paul did not accept Jesus Christ as lord and savior, Paul did not have faith in Jesus, Paul had no regeneration.

Are you serious??? Paul, an Apostle of Jesus Christ, did not accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour?? Was never born-again?? Really??

 

[HankD]

Paul did not accept Jesus Christ as lord and savior, Paul did not have faith in Jesus, Paul had no regeneration.

really!?

I don't believe it utilyan.

HankD

 

[steaver]

really!?

I don't believe it utilyan.

HankD

I guess he is arguing that everyone is unsaved until they are saved. Lol.

 

[Adonia]

ONLY true born-again Christians go to heaven and all the rest will go to he!!.

It is not what God says in the Scriptures, it is what you have said as I posted above. The Scriptures not withstanding, you do not know what will happen at the appointed time. God has infinite mercy and He can bestow said mercy upon whom He will. Do you deny that He can do that?

 

[steaver]

God has infinite mercy and He can bestow said mercy upon whom He will. Do you deny that He can do that?

I am not the one who said it, I appeal to what God says. You want me to lie and say God did not say what He said to us. Jesus Christ said no one can enter into the Kingdom of God except he be born-again. I repeated what Jesus said and you declare Jesus never said it. What's up with that? Do you not read Scripture? All of Scripture?

So if Jesus saves people without them being born-again, then Jesus is a liar. You are declaring Jesus is a liar.

Jesus said to the Pharisees which also rejected His words...."And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not."

My question for you is, why do you not believe Jesus' words? He said not born of God, not entering in. You say that is not what He said. You have some explaining to do. Start explaining...

 

[utilyan]

really!?

I don't believe it utilyan.

HankD

There was absolutely no warrant for Paul to receive any mercy, yet Jesus Christ intervened, this is an act of mercy and forgiveness.

Paul did not pray for Jesus, he was dead set on killing Christians. Even hard for the Christians to swallow:
13But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he did to Your saints at Jerusalem;

Paul himself tells you: "Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief"

There Is not one thing about Paul that places him in better conditions then anyone else. There is nothing he did to merit, and he absolutely had no faith in Jesus Christ.

Cornelius is another example of the other positive extreme.

He had ZERO to do with Jesus Christ:

Acts 10
3About the ninth hour of the day he clearly saw in a vision an angel of God who had just come in and said to him, “Cornelius!” 4And fixing his gaze on him and being much alarmed, he said, “What is it, Lord?” And he said to him, “Your prayers and alms have ascended as a memorial before God.

Its later that Peter preaches the gospel to him.

You got a prayer of a Pagan being answered so can one of a Muslim.


Here is a case where a Pagan woman is dying so her Pagan Mother seeks help from Jesus, this is mercy for SOMEONE ELSE!

Matthew 15
21Jesus went away from there, and withdrew into the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed.” 23But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, “Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us.” 24But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25But she came and began to bow down before Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” 26And He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27But she said, “Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” 28Then Jesus said to her, “O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed at once.

Jesus himself challenges that he was only sent to help his own, the same belief you and pharisees at the time are trying to drive at.

Her pagan demon possessed daughter is not a christian, she did not accept Jesus as neighbor, Yet she gets mercy and on that on behalf through her mother!

You would swear there is no way for her to get mercy unless its from her directly to Jesus and she would have to be christian.


The entire point of the GOOD SAMARITAN is that there is no religious boundary. When it came to salvation Jesus says Love God and Love neighbor, and his first example agape given is NON-christian,Non-jew.

God does not call the qualified, he qualifies the called.

Kneel before and worship me as your Lord and you get in the kingdom. <-- Jesus never gave that deal.

Satan did when he tried to tempt Jesus Christ. Why would you think Jesus is anything like satan? Christ is not selfish.

This is one who gave his life for others, He forgives even very unbelievers who killed him at the cross while they do it.

Stephen first martyr after Jesus' death. :

Acts7

59They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” 60Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he fell asleep.

Paul for the sake of others.

Romans 9
3For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh,


See the attitude of Jesus, Stephen, Paul........ Its not a selfish-based on their own salvation, there is no condemning others in there, they are doing everything for the sake of others.

 

[steaver]

There was absolutely no warrant for Paul to receive any mercy, yet Jesus Christ intervened, this is an act of mercy and forgiveness.

Actually your position is the exact position of Calvinism. You believe Jesus Christ makes a person believe as you plead the example of Paul, in your view, being forced to follow Jesus Christ.

There is absolutely no warrant for you or I or anyone to receive any mercy, yet Jesus Christ intervened, this is an act of mercy and forgiveness. So Paul is no exception to mercy and forgiveness.

Are you suggesting that you merited your own salvation and Paul did not?

In addition to your position being totally illogical, you have the word of Jesus Christ Himself on this topic which you have never been able to address, you simply ignore what He has said...

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God....
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

 

[HankD]

There was absolutely no warrant for Paul to receive any mercy, yet Jesus Christ intervened, this is an act of mercy and forgiveness.

there is absolutely no warrant for any of us to receive any mercy.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

HankD

 

[steaver]

Paul himself tells you: "Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief"

This is everyone, not just Paul. Everyone acts ignorantly in unbelief until they are confronted with the Holy Spirit and Truth/Jesus Christ, each individual has their own testimony of conviction which either results in belief or unbelief. Paul's testimony is certainly a unique and fantastic one, but certainly a rare one.

There are two views concerning Paul. 1) The Calvinistic view, which is Jesus Christ caused Paul to be born-again apart from any belief on Paul's part, in other words, Jesus made Paul believe on Him. 2) Freewill view, which is Jesus Christ confronted Paul and Paul then chose to believe.

Here is the conversation between Jesus and Paul...

"And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord saidunto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do."

1) Paul heard a voice. He does not know who the voice is so He asks, Who art thou, Lord? Paul is uncertain, is this the Lord? If Paul was already born again at this point Paul would know it was Jesus for Jesus said "My sheep hear My voice and they follow me". Paul was neither understanding this voice was Jesus nor was Paul following Jesus at this point.
2) After Jesus reveals to Paul who's voice Paul is hearing, Paul trembles and is astonished, and then Paul makes his choice. Paul could have continued on in unbelief. Paul could have said "blasphemy, you are the devil!" but instead Paul believed and answered, "what wilt thou have me to do", ready to follow Jesus Christ.

I find it odd that a Catholic would take the Calvinist view on salvation. This is why you probably do not see any Calvinist here challenging you on your using Paul as an example of how the Lord saves people in general.

 

[steaver]

There was absolutely no warrant for Paul to receive any mercy, yet Jesus Christ intervened, this is an act of mercy and forgiveness.

Isn't this fascinating? A Catholic defending Calvinism. No need to accept Jesus Christ as Savior. No need to do any works. No need to place any faith in Christ. Salvation is supplied by Jesus Christ selecting which ones He chooses to save SOLELY by His mercy and grace without any choice by the one receiving the grace. This is Calvinism. Jesus selects some for mercy and others He passes over based upon absolutely nothing any person ever does, not faith, not asking, not anything. Jesus picks and chooses those He cares to save and those He chooses to be left to hell. Who would have thought the Catholics and the Calvinist are so perfectly aligned on the subject of election?

 

[HankD]

Isn't this fascinating? A Catholic defending Calvinism. No need to accept Jesus Christ as Savior. No need to do any works. No need to place any faith in Christ. Salvation is supplied by Jesus Christ selecting which ones He chooses to save SOLELY by His mercy and grace without any choice by the one receiving the grace. This is Calvinism. Jesus selects some for mercy and others He passes over based upon absolutely nothing any person ever does, not faith, not asking, not anything. Jesus picks and chooses those He cares to save and those He chooses to be left to hell. Who would have thought the Catholics and the Calvinist are so perfectly aligned on the subject of election?

Augustine?

HankD

 

[Adonia]

I am not the one who said it, I appeal to what God says. You want me to lie and say God did not say what He said to us. Jesus Christ said no one can enter into the Kingdom of God except he be born-again. I repeated what Jesus said and you declare Jesus never said it. What's up with that? Do you not read Scripture? All of Scripture?

So if Jesus saves people without them being born-again, then Jesus is a liar. You are declaring Jesus is a liar.

Jesus said to the Pharisees which also rejected His words...."And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not."

My question for you is, why do you not believe Jesus' words? He said not born of God, not entering in. You say that is not what He said. You have some explaining to do. Start explaining...

.

We are not talking about Jesus here, we are not talking about what was written in the Scriptures. We are talking about God, the all powerful, the all knowing, the creator of every living person that exists. Does God the Father have to power to grant mercy to whom he wants? This is a simple stand alone question with a simple answer. Yes or no?