"Few be there that find it"

[utilyan]

And you choose to be blind. I cannot help you if you choose blindness to the facts.



Paul goes on to say they are CUT OFF FOR UNBELIEF! You are choosing to be blind!



But you did change the entire teaching. The more you engage with Scripture the more you display your lack of understanding.

First, Paul is speaking to Believers, not Unbelievers. They have belief in Jesus Christ.

Second, Here is what Paul said, "and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing." You twisted faith to mean faith in Jesus Christ.

Third, Paul concludes with this, "And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity." Three ingredients abide, not Love alone. Love is the greatest, but it must be directed as God said, you can't make up your own way to love God.

Fourth, same letter Paul concludes also, "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." Tell us how the Jews love Jesus Christ?



Problem is, the debate is not about belief void of love, but love void of faith in Jesus Christ. There is no debate that belief without love is a false faith. So you are off topic.

Once again your position is blown out of the water by the clear teaching of Scripture. Yet you continue on with blinders. It is a sad thing to witness.

All you have to do is cite scripture saying what you mean, You have failed.


Romans 10 does not teach they are damned. It even continues Romans 11:

28From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

Context does not favor you.

1 john 4

8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

Love is the highest priority, LOVE IS GOD.

1 john 4

16We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.


Love alone is perfect, to Abide in LOVE = Abides in God.


1 john 4
20If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.




When Jesus Christ gives example of proper following of Loving God and Loving neighbor, he points to a Samaritan. Not a Jew not a christian.

You would try to convinces us that Jesus Christ gives as an example someone who is DAMNED.

Under your theology the Good Samaritan goes to hell.


"Paul is speaking to Believers, not Unbelievers. They have belief in Jesus Christ."
"Here is what Paul said, "and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing." You twisted faith to mean faith in Jesus Christ."

Well then what kind of "believer" has faith in something else if it doesn't mean faith in Jesus Christ?^^^
And what kind of FAITH in something else is OK as long as it has LOVE(charity)?^^^^

You have twisted this scripture with yourself into a knot. OH this is just for believers. The pharisee says "who is my neighbor?" in the same fashion of trying to have teachings exclusive to "believers".

But then the very next critique of scripture you say a BELIEVER can have faith in something else (not having to do with Christ....or else we would be "twisting faith") And this would be JUST FINE as long as CHARITY is present.


What is all this admonishment of meaningless do's and don'ts if all certainly good was completed by mere belief?

Tell me what kind of (mountain moving) faith a BELIEVER uses that doesn't mean faith in Jesus Christ, contains CHARITY and is VALID act all together.


So what!? SO what if a believer -> gives all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

So what if a BELIEVER of Jesus Christ does all these things and doesn't love. SO WHAT!? Why is Paul bothering these perfectly saved believers?

So what if a Believer loves NNE, not Jesus, not God not anyone on earth? So what!?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

1 john 4

8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

Love is the highest priority, LOVE IS GOD.

But before God is love, He is light.
'This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practise the truth' (1 John 1:5-6).

 

[steaver]

It seems Ms. Brazille has apologized publically for her "go to hell" comment. Since she is a Christian, I would think that she will also at some point be seeking forgiveness from the Lord for her less than honorable comment.

Not sure where you heard this. I did a search "brazile apologizes" and all that came up was her apologizing to the DNC and Bernie. Both of which lobby for the abortion mills, hardly a Christian attribute.

 

[steaver]

All you have to do is cite scripture saying what you mean, You have failed.

We all noticed you did not address this...."If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." Tell us how the Jews love Jesus Christ?

8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

So tell us how the Jews love Jesus Christ? Still waiting....

When Jesus Christ gives example of proper following of Loving God and Loving neighbor, he points to a Samaritan. Not a Jew not a christian.

So tell us how the Jews love Jesus Christ?

1 john 4
20If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

There it is! Tell us how the Jews loved their brothers Paul, Peter, John, Mark, Luke, Mathew, etc.... Tell us how the Jews loved them so much they tracked them down and killed them. Please do tell us....

Tell us how the Jews, even today, love Jesus Christ? "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." Go ahead and tell us, we are all ears!

 

[utilyan]

We all noticed you did not address this...."If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." Tell us how the Jews love Jesus Christ?



So tell us how the Jews love Jesus Christ? Still waiting....



So tell us how the Jews love Jesus Christ?



There it is! Tell us how the Jews loved their brothers Paul, Peter, John, Mark, Luke, Mathew, etc.... Tell us how the Jews loved them so much they tracked them down and killed them. Please do tell us....

Tell us how the Jews, even today, love Jesus Christ? "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." Go ahead and tell us, we are all ears!

Plenty of Jews love Jesus, they don't believe he is God

Forgive them Steaver, They know not what they do. Sorry didn't think Christ forgiveness of them would disappoint you.

Paul did not love Jesus, Paul tracked down and killed christians.

Pharisees always looking for excuses to damn folks rather then defend them.

13“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

If you don't love everyone it is a Anathema even by Jewish standards.

That doesn't mean your damned.

How about you answer one of my questions to see who is "peddling lies".

I believe the bible is very true, infallible, very important. I am pretty sure you believe the same thing. So don't try to hide the truth with what we already agree on.

I believe you shouldn't go beyond what is written, that you shouldn't make up fake rules that don't exist.

How about giving us that bible verse you swear exist, that scripture is the ONLY and FINAL authority in Christianity.

 

[Adonia]

Not sure where you heard this. I did a search "brazile apologizes" and all that came up was her apologizing to the DNC and Bernie. Both of which lobby for the abortion mills, hardly a Christian attribute.

I heard it myself on the Tucker Carlson show on Fox. She sinned, she apologized, and if she seeks forgiveness for her transgression from God what more do you want? Maybe you should just stop judging others and their faults and concentrate on living the most holy life that is possible for yourself, no?

 

[steaver]

Plenty of Jews love Jesus, they don't believe he is God

Forgive them Steaver, They know not what they do. Sorry didn't think Christ forgiveness of them would disappoint you.

Exactly! They don't believe He is The Son of God! So you believe Christ forgives them for not believing?

1) Jesus DEFINES those who love Him. They BELIEVE Him.
2) Jesus DECLARES these who do not BELIEVE Him children of the Devil.
3) Unless you believe children of the Devil are saved, Jesus' Word destroys your gospel of phony love.

"Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."

Well there it is Utilyan, can ye hear it? Jesus rejects their claim to be of God BECAUSE OF THEIR UNBELIEF that Jesus is the Son of God! Jesus even goes further calling the Devil their father.

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

Paul did not love Jesus, Paul tracked down and killed christians.

That is correct! And Paul was NOT saved UNTIL he BELIEVED!

Pharisees always looking for excuses to damn folks rather then defend them.

13“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

Great example of Jesus condemning those Jews who would not BELIEVE! Those who wanted to say God was their Father and yet NOT BELIEVE Jesus is the Son of God.

If you don't love everyone it is a Anathema even by Jewish standards.

The same Jews who reject Jesus Christ and refuse to BELIEVE He is the Christ? God's Standard is Faith in His Son which produces genuine Love. The Jews and the Catholic standard is worldly love void of Faith in Jesus Christ. I will go with God on this one!

I believe you shouldn't go beyond what is written, that you shouldn't make up fake rules that don't exist.

This you say, but you insist upon making up this Love salvation apart from Faith in Jesus Christ. This is found nowhere in the Scripture and is ENTIRELY going beyond what is written. What is written is crystal clear.

How about giving us that bible verse you swear exist, that scripture is the ONLY and FINAL authority in Christianity.

Lol. I gave you dozens of bible verses that declare one MUST BELIEVE Jesus is the Son of God or they are condemned and you reject what God says. Why in the world would you accept any bible verses proving any type of doctrines???

 

[steaver]

Maybe you should just stop judging others and their faults and concentrate on living the most holy life that is possible for yourself, no?

You guys are so far disconnected from the Truth. Don't you read and hear what Jesus Christ had to say? I honestly don't believe you read or care what Jesus said. He spoke plainly about salvation, so plainly it is ridiculous how anyone would not get it.

You cling to an account Jesus gave describing a Good Samaritan loving a stranger and declare false all the declarations of Jesus Christ saying those who do not believe He is the Christ are condemned. You like the Good Samaritan salvation plan you came up with, guess it takes you off the hook for evangelism, after all, show a little love and you will be just fine with God, that feels better. But you hate what Jesus said about not believing He is the Christ salvation plan presented by God throughout hundreds of verses in the Scripture. Wouldn't hating what Jesus said be the same as hating Jesus? Well, maybe I am just reading it wrong, maybe taking it out of context. Ok, you explain the passage for me...

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God....But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God....
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him".

Go ahead, explain why this does not say what it says. I don't even need to add commentary, looks crystal clear to me, but go ahead and explain why it does not say belief is necessary to avoid condemnation.

 

[Adonia]

You guys are so far disconnected from the Truth. Don't you read and hear what Jesus Christ had to say? I honestly don't believe you read or care what Jesus said. He spoke plainly about salvation, so plainly it is ridiculous how anyone would not get it.

You cling to an account Jesus gave describing a Good Samaritan loving a stranger and declare false all the declarations of Jesus Christ saying those who do not believe He is the Christ are condemned. You like the Good Samaritan salvation plan you came up with, guess it takes you off the hook for evangelism, after all, show a little love and you will be just fine with God, that feels better. But you hate what Jesus said about not believing He is the Christ salvation plan presented by God throughout hundreds of verses in the Scripture. Wouldn't hating what Jesus said be the same as hating Jesus? Well, maybe I am just reading it wrong, maybe taking it out of context. Ok, you explain the passage for me...

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God....But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God....
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him".

Go ahead, explain why this does not say what it says. I don't even need to add commentary, looks crystal clear to me, but go ahead and explain why it does not say belief is necessary to avoid condemnation.

Live by example brother, not by the condemnations of others that comes out of your mouth. You are the one who condemns this person or that person. Jesus is the Christ, not you. Jesus is the judge of others, not you. Is it just believing, or is it walking the walk of Christ that really matters?

 

[utilyan]

Exactly! They don't believe He is The Son of God! So you believe Christ forgives them for not believing?

1) Jesus DEFINES those who love Him. They BELIEVE Him.
2) Jesus DECLARES these who do not BELIEVE Him children of the Devil.
3) Unless you believe children of the Devil are saved, Jesus' Word destroys your gospel of phony love.

"Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."

Well there it is Utilyan, can ye hear it? Jesus rejects their claim to be of God BECAUSE OF THEIR UNBELIEF that Jesus is the Son of God! Jesus even goes further calling the Devil their father.

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."



That is correct! And Paul was NOT saved UNTIL he BELIEVED!



Great example of Jesus condemning those Jews who would not BELIEVE! Those who wanted to say God was their Father and yet NOT BELIEVE Jesus is the Son of God.



The same Jews who reject Jesus Christ and refuse to BELIEVE He is the Christ? God's Standard is Faith in His Son which produces genuine Love. The Jews and the Catholic standard is worldly love void of Faith in Jesus Christ. I will go with God on this one!



This you say, but you insist upon making up this Love salvation apart from Faith in Jesus Christ. This is found nowhere in the Scripture and is ENTIRELY going beyond what is written. What is written is crystal clear.



Lol. I gave you dozens of bible verses that declare one MUST BELIEVE Jesus is the Son of God or they are condemned and you reject what God says. Why in the world would you accept any bible verses proving any type of doctrines???

I have the direct command of Jesus Christ prioritizing LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR.

He says IF YOU LOVE ME, Keep my commandments.

SATAN believes in Jesus, just because both of you have that in common doesn't mean Satan is saved.



Now you accuse others of lies, I'm flipping this right back at ya.


How about giving us that bible verse you swear exist, that scripture is the ONLY and FINAL authority in Christianity.

If you don't give me a verse, Then you admit you are in the wrong.

Cause I am told, the only liar here is you, i don't believe that. I'm told you will give scripture of scripture being important, of it being the truth, But that you are a liar when it comes to scripture being the FINAL and ONLY authority christian. That you falsely say that verse exists when it is really unbiblical.
I don't believe that.

How about giving us that bible verse you swear exist, that scripture is the ONLY and FINAL authority in Christianity.

We can settle this as quick as lightning.

 

[steaver]

Live by example brother, not by the condemnations of others that comes out of your mouth.

You will notice the condemnations were from Jesus' mouth, not mine. I only follow Jesus' command to preach His words to the world, a command you refuse to obey.

Here are His words again, go ahead and explain to us why it does not say belief is necessary to avoid condemnation...

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God....But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God....
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him".

Is it just believing, or is it walking the walk of Christ that really matters?

How are you walking the walk of Christ when you refuse to tell people the whole truth of the Gospel? Christ told the whole truth, you do not, thus you do not walk the walk of Christ.

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Bolded is the whole truth of the matter. You refuse to preach the whole truth, this Jesus did not do.

 

[steaver]

I have the direct command of Jesus Christ prioritizing LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR.

He says IF YOU LOVE ME, Keep my commandments.

Which I agree with. But you have selective commands. You pick the ones you like and reject the ones you do not like. I on the other hand embrace both, one command does not nulify the other, both are matters of fact.

LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR and BELIEVE ON THE SON OF GOD.

SATAN believes in Jesus, just because both of you have that in common doesn't mean Satan is saved.

Satan is an ANGEL. Angels have no part in God's salvation of human beings. Their fate was sealed when God dealt with Satan and all the angels before God ever created Adam and Eve. So your "Satan believes" plea is really showing ignorance of the bible. One day God will deal with all human beings at the Great White Throne Judgment and at that time ALL human beings will believe in Jesus Christ, but not all will be saved, correct? So you really ought to put that argument in the trash tank.

How about giving us that bible verse you swear exist, that scripture is the ONLY and FINAL authority in Christianity.

We can settle this as quick as lightning.

Not sure how this would settle whether or not Jesus said "He that believeth not is condemned already".

It appears by this new angel you are suggesting there is a different Final Authority other than the Word of God? Does this mean you are dismissing what Jesus said as NOT Authoritative? You will have to explain what you are thinking. If the Word of God is not your Final Authority then who is?

 

[Adonia]

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

So, we see here that baptism IS a requirement for salvation and just BELIEVING will not suffice. You do agree with that, don't you? I wonder, is there any other things we must do for salvation?

 

[steaver]

So, we see here that baptism IS a requirement for salvation and just BELIEVING will not suffice. You do agree with that, don't you?

Yes, it is. So how should we deal with this? How many baptisms are described in the Word? Which one would Jesus have to be referring to? Would it be water baptism? Well, the thief on the cross was not baptized with water, however he did believe. What about a soldier pinned down in a fox hole and his fellow soldier, a Christian, witnesses the Gospel to him and he believes, but is killed that very same hour? Is he not saved because he could not get to some water? Yet there is a salvation baptism spoken of that does not involve any water, yet is connected to belief of Jesus Christ. Do you know what baptism does not involve any water, yet is connected to believe?

"John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:" (Luke 3:16)

I wonder, is there any other things we must do for salvation?

The wonderful thing is there is no need to wonder, we have the Word of God and the Holy Spirit to teach us.

Now you teach one only needs to Love or in others words "Love Alone".

I teach one only needs to have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ or in other words 'Faith Alone".

Now my Faith Alone teaching is NOT defined as Faith without Love or good works through Love. True Faith is evidenced by good works of Love for thy Neighbor. Thus, my position of salvation is Faith in Jesus Christ Alone and that "said" Faith is proven outwardly genuine by that person's works, the works in themselves justifying the said Faith and not the person's soul before God. Paul and James both make this crystal clear.

Now on the other hand you are teaching Love Alone void of any Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Oh a person can have both, but both is not necessary for salvation. This of course would reject nearly all of the Jesus' teaching in the Word of God on Believing.

 

[Adonia]

Now on the other hand you are teaching Love Alone void of any Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Not at all. Faith is essential, we must believe that Jesus Christ is indeed the Savior, but we are also judged on what we have done. In Romans 2: 5-7 it says:"But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. "God "will repay each person according to what they have done." (What?????) "To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life". (Other passages in the Scriptures reflect this as you should well know). Just believing is not going to cut it. (at least to God anyway).

 

[utilyan]

Which I agree with. But you have selective commands. You pick the ones you like and reject the ones you do not like. I on the other hand embrace both, one command does not nulify the other, both are matters of fact.

LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR and BELIEVE ON THE SON OF GOD.



Satan is an ANGEL. Angels have no part in God's salvation of human beings. Their fate was sealed when God dealt with Satan and all the angels before God ever created Adam and Eve. So your "Satan believes" plea is really showing ignorance of the bible. One day God will deal with all human beings at the Great White Throne Judgment and at that time ALL human beings will believe in Jesus Christ, but not all will be saved, correct? So you really ought to put that argument in the trash tank.



Not sure how this would settle whether or not Jesus said "He that believeth not is condemned already".

It appears by this new angel you are suggesting there is a different Final Authority other than the Word of God? Does this mean you are dismissing what Jesus said as NOT Authoritative? You will have to explain what you are thinking. If the Word of God is not your Final Authority then who is?

You keep trying to tap dance around the truth.

You have the easiest Job in the world. To point out that you are not a Liar.

How about giving us that bible verse you swear exist, that scripture is the ONLY and FINAL authority in Christianity.

Every time you evade and dodge it just shows dishonesty. Who is "peddling lies" again?

 

[steaver]

You keep trying to tap dance around the truth.

You have the easiest Job in the world. To point out that you are not a Liar.

How about giving us that bible verse you swear exist, that scripture is the ONLY and FINAL authority in Christianity.

Every time you evade and dodge it just shows dishonesty. Who is "peddling lies" again?

It appears you have been backed up against a wall. Not a bad place to be if you will humble yourself and examine yourself.

Here it is again, you can continue to dig in your heals or you can reflect upon your position and attempt to defend it or adjust it.....

Not sure how this new angel would settle whether or not Jesus said "He that believeth not is condemned already".

It appears by this new angel you are suggesting there is a different Final Authority other than the Word of God? Does this mean you are dismissing what Jesus said as NOT Authoritative? You will have to explain what you are thinking. If the Word of God is not your Final Authority then who is?

 

[steaver]

Not at all. Faith is essential, we must believe that Jesus Christ is indeed the Savior, but we are also judged on what we have done. In Romans 2: 5-7 it says:"But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. "God "will repay each person according to what they have done." (What?????) "To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life". (Other passages in the Scriptures reflect this as you should well know). Just believing is not going to cut it. (at least to God anyway).

Maybe your position is different than Utilyan's. His position is NO Faith in Jesus Christ is needed only Love. I am glad to see you at least understand Faith is essential. I also agree we will be judged according to our works, however, as you agree faith is essential, these works will only be judged worthy if seen through the eyes of God as done in and through Christ.

"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing". (John 15:5)

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them". (Eph 2:10)

I appreciate you going to the Word of God as your Final Authority to argue your positions. As you can see however, the Word of God can be misunderstood and this is why we must study and rightly divide the word of Truth. You referenced a passage but misapplied it by not allowing the full counsel of God's Word to apply it within the context of faith and one first being created in Christ Jesus. Scripture will interpret Scripture or in other words God will interpret His doctrines with His Word.

I don;t understand Utilyan. You are fellow Catholics correct? Yet you two do not agree on faith being essential for salvation. I thought Catholics prided their religion on all maintaining the same doctrinal beliefs without error?

 

[utilyan]

It appears you have been backed up against a wall. Not a bad place to be if you will humble yourself and examine yourself.

Here it is again, you can continue to dig in your heals or you can reflect upon your position and attempt to defend it or adjust it.....

Not sure how this new angel would settle whether or not Jesus said "He that believeth not is condemned already".

It appears by this new angel you are suggesting there is a different Final Authority other than the Word of God? Does this mean you are dismissing what Jesus said as NOT Authoritative? You will have to explain what you are thinking. If the Word of God is not your Final Authority then who is?

Same chapter Jesus expresses that the opposite of believing in him has to do with obedience. When Jesus gives example of Love God and Love Neighbor, his choice example is the GOOD SAMARITAN.

By your fascist standards The Good Samaritan would be damned.

Belief in Jesus Christ doesn't mean belief in your principles but Christ's principles

You want to pass on your fake rules as God's.

You keep changing the subject because you are afraid.

The subject is "peddling lies"

How about giving us that bible verse you swear exist, that scripture is the ONLY and FINAL authority in Christianity.

 

[Adonia]

Maybe your position is different than Utilyan's. His position is NO Faith in Jesus Christ is needed only Love. I am glad to see you at least understand Faith is essential. I also agree we will be judged according to our works, however, as you agree faith is essential, these works will only be judged worthy if seen through the eyes of God as done in and through Christ.

For me faith in Christ is essential, I have no place else to turn for forgiveness of my sins. I still maintain however that God can have mercy on anyone He so desires to extend it too - anyone!

As for utilyan, he is also right because love is what Christ was trying to teach all of us. Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind and your neighbor as yourself Jesus said - those are the two greatest commands. (Matthew 22:36-40). And you should not misinterpret what utilyan is trying to say, our brother does indeed have faith in Christ.

I appreciate you going to the Word of God as your Final Authority to argue your positions. As you can see however, the Word of God can be misunderstood and this is why we must study and rightly divide the word of Truth. You referenced a passage but misapplied it by not allowing the full counsel of God's Word to apply it within the context of faith and one first being created in Christ Jesus. Scripture will interpret Scripture or in other words God will interpret His doctrines with His Word.

The final authority is the Church and it's interpretation of the Scriptures. Everything combined - the authority of the Church, the Sacred Traditions handed down throughout the centuries, and of course the Sacred Scriptures. Deviate from those three and you are asking for trouble. Scripture does not interpret scripture, the Church interprets the Scriptures, and does that correctly I might add. "He who hears you, hears me....." said the Lord. (Luke 10-16)