Filling of the Spirit --- What is it?

[TCGreek]

This is the classic verse to me to prove that the filling of the Holy Spirit is for bold service for the Lord.

Concerning the baptism and the fullness being the same, compare Acts 1:5 and 2:4. Luke was talking about the same event using the two terms. This does leave room, though, for Torrey's view that the baptism was the first time filling, and after that it should be called the filling of the Spirit.

Yes, I think Torrey has the Bible in his corner on this one.

Some dispensationalists who believe the filling to be simply for the Christian life, like to bring in 1 Cor. 12:13 here to say that the baptism is simply being put into the body of Christ at salvation. But I think the data in Acts disproves that view. I think 1 Cor. 12: 13 and the baptism in Acts are two different things.

Yes, I've always felt that way about 1 cor 12:13.

 

[John of Japan]

Well, you turned out "A Sumari preacher." :laugh:

Samurai preacher. Hmm. I like this. The samurai were totally devoted to their lord, the daimyo. They would deny themselves, and obey instantly, day or night.

Oh if only I were so obedient to the Holy Spirit!

 

[TCGreek]

Samurai preacher. Hmm. I like this. The samurai were totally devoted to their lord, the daimyo. They would deny themselves, and obey instantly, day or night.

Oh if only I were so obedient to the Holy Spirit!

I like the culture of the samurai; it certainly fits the word-picture of doulos.

I thought I'd make a spin off the fact you're in Japan.

 

[John of Japan]

R. A. Torrey’s conditions for being filled with the Holy Spirit: (1) Accept Jesus as Savior. (2) Renounce all sin. (3) Openly confess Christ before the world. (4) Surrender your will to God. (5) Thirst for God’s power. (6) Ask God to fill you with the Holy Spirit. (7) Believe that you have been filled. (From The Holy Spirit: Who He Is and What He Does, ch. 7.)

 

[TCGreek]

R. A. Torrey’s conditions for being filled with the Holy Spirit: (1) Accept Jesus as Savior. (2) Renounce all sin. (3) Openly confess Christ before the world. (4) Surrender your will to God. (5) Thirst for God’s power. (6) Ask God to fill you with the Holy Spirit. (7) Believe that you have been filled. (From The Holy Spirit: Who He Is and What He Does, ch. 7.)

I appreciate his list, but I don't know if it's that exact.

You said earlier that Acts 4:31 is key in this debate, but in that text I don't see such a list or anywhere else.

I guess we may have to put together a number of Scriptures to compile such a list.

I think that the only prerequisite to being filled with the Spirit is to be a faithful Christian whom God can use for a particular ministry.

I guess Torrey's list speaks to what it means to be read as a Christian for the filling of the Spirit.

 

[skypair]

Here's what I believe: We have a permanent indwelling but also a time-to-time filling for particular ministry.

Scripture: Acts 4:31:

"After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly." (TNIV, emphasis mine).

While they all had the indwelling of the Spirit, they needed a special filling for a particular ministry--preaching the word with boldness.

Yes, we agree so far. So have you experienced it? How would you describe it if you did?

skypair

 

[skypair]

Filled with the Spirit, is when the Spirit flows from breast to breast and most of the whole house is filled and rejoice in the Lord. It is not a time of being out of your mind, but a time you just want to praise the Lord, with voice and actions, such as lifting up your hands in praise for the Lord and giving thanks for your salvation, without fear of shame or rebuke. It is a glorious time of which stays with you for some time after leaving service. Sometimes it happens while driving and meditating, at home whereever. It is not affilated with the charasmatic movement of some, as I have heard condemned on BB, but is simply a time of giving ones self to total praise to the Lord.

And Yes, I have been filled with the Holy Spirit many times, whether preaching or not. It is my meat and my drink.

BBob,

Yes, sounds familiar! Like you say "driving" even. I'll suddenly think how blessed I am leading me to think, not how much I deserve it but how little -- and then to God's love that overwhelms me as His child.

skypair

 

[John of Japan]

I appreciate his list, but I don't know if it's that exact.

I don't see Torrey's list as the final word. I see it as one viewpoint, but I do believe that if a sincere Christian follows Torrey's list step by step, the Lord will fill him. I don't mean that as pragmatism, "Do this and you will be successful." I mean it as true, internal, faith-filled desire to walk with God and be used by Him. So in that sense the most important point on Torrey's list is (5) Thirst for power. This means you will surrender your will to God, you will walk with Him, you will pray for His power.

A little book by another old timer called Quiet Talks on Power, by S. D. Gordon, says this well throughout the book. Or there is always Spurgeon, who I know you love: "Love the Spirit, worship the Spirit, trust the Spirit, obey the Spirit, and, as a church, cry mightily to the Spirit. Beseech him to let his mighty power be felt and known among you." (His sermon on "The Paraclete" in a little collection of his sermons on the Spirit, The Holy Spirit.)

You said earlier that Acts 4:31 is key in this debate, but in that text I don't see such a list or anywhere else.

What makes this verse a key is: (1) They prayed. The fullness of the Holy Spirit must be prayed for as they did here and as the disciples in the upper room before Pentecost did. Some writers deny the need of prayer for the filling of the Spirit. They believe being filled with the Spirit simply means being controlled by the Spirit, and the result is the fruit of the Spirit. But the way to a better Christian life is walking in the Spirit, not the fullness. (2) They were filled, and then spoke the Word with boldness. So the result is not sinless perfection (Holiness), a good Christian life (some dispensationalists), tongues, or just a great feeling. It is bold service for Christ.

I guess we may have to put together a number of Scriptures to compile such a list.

I think that the only prerequisite to being filled with the Spirit is to be a faithful Christian whom God can use for a particular ministry.

I guess Torrey's list speaks to what it means to be read as a Christian for the filling of the Spirit.

I think any such list will end up being similar to Torrey's. Anyone who deeply studies this will learn some of the same things. I've already mentioned prayer as in Acts 4:31. There is the thirst for God's power in Is. 44:3. Then obviously one who is happy in his sin and wants God's power without the price of abandoning sin will never be filled. Then there is the command to tarry in Luke 24:49. The best writers all mention tarrying, waiting, truly being serious about receiving God's power.

But again, to me it is all summed up in the thirst and the prayer.

 

[John of Japan]

Yes, we agree so far. So have you experienced it? How would you describe it if you did?

skypair

I'm sure TC will answer for himself, but you may read my experience at: http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=47056&page=2 under "First Adult Saved in Yokohama."

 

[skypair]

R. A. Torrey’s conditions for being filled with the Holy Spirit: (1) Accept Jesus as Savior. (2) Renounce all sin. (3) Openly confess Christ before the world. (4) Surrender your will to God. (5) Thirst for God’s power. (6) Ask God to fill you with the Holy Spirit. (7) Believe that you have been filled. (From The Holy Spirit: Who He Is and What He Does, ch. 7.)

That was my next question. What condition must exist for the "filling" of the Holy Spirit. I have heard that list, BTW, and I believe that puts up too many "barriers."

IMO, one must be a "born again" believer engaged in some activity where one would expect to "meet" the Spirit -- Bible reading/study, hearing the word preached, singing hymns, worshipping God, etc. I do believe one thing applies -- you cannot have "idols before your face" and expect answers of the Lord. This means to me, I can't be letting my mind wander while I am actively seeking to be filled or I'll miss it!

However, I would distinguish from this a more acute need for the filling -- the one you gentlemen have of being "appointed" on such and such a date and time to present the word. I have a little experience with this having presented Bible lessons before. In the main, I had not laid out beforehand any agenda ("Seven Sermons on Romans," or anything). That would seem to rely even more on the these other items that you list.

As to item #7, though -- I don't believe one can presume this. One can always believe that the message, if it is God's word, is filled. But I don't believe it is necessary that we have a "fresh filling" ourselves before we go preach a sermon that 1) filled us before or 2) comes from God's word which itself embodies the fullness of the Spirit to those who pay attention.

skypair

 

[skypair]

I'm sure TC will answer for himself, but you may read my experience at: http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=47056&page=2 under "First Adult Saved in Yokohama."

Those are tremendous stories!

I believe that, by and large, the issue of filling is to focus on God, not on ourselves. Seaching for His mind, emotions, and will --- not our own.

Much of "filling" I would compare with being "seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" for awhile and just interacting with Him. One way I forgot to mention but which has "transported" me and you as well, no doubt, is prayer -- trying to be filled with God's sense of the things I am praying for (His thoughts, His motives/love, His timing).

BTW, your grandad was pastor at my former church, Bellevue Baptist, no?

skypair

 

[Salamander]

When the "Spirit came upon" means that they were filled with the Spirit, there isn't a "beter" way to say the same thing.

Entering into the pulpit w/o filling? Must needs be! But too many enter filled with ego, political measures, self-confidences, axe-grinding, etc.


Being filled isn't just for any particular service in that when one is filled they are used of God in ways not found before less that filling.

In preaching one must be filled to bring about lasting results. Emotional responses to the charisma of a preacher only bring about temporary changes, but those changes that are directed from a Spirit-filled message transform the heart and are eternal.

I've seen some of the most simple messages have the most tremendous results in salvation and sanctification from a truly Spirit-filled preacher. I have also seen the opposite in "intellectual" sermons that many responded/ were only stirred, and not actually changed.

"I'm tired of being stirred and without change. I want to be changed to stir people to change when it comes to their being filled with the Spirit and turning away from sin and towards the Lord."

 

[skypair]

When the "Spirit came upon" means that they were filled with the Spirit, there isn't a "beter" way to say the same thing.

Entering into the pulpit w/o filling? Must needs be! But too many enter filled with ego, political measures, self-confidences, axe-grinding, etc.

Those are some good comments, saly. And we must remember that pastors are human, too.

I believe that at the end, Dr Rogers was very much more engaged in his own health (as would anybody be). I think when it comes to that, the preacher has to preach the word more than ever letting the word speak for itself. Heaven knows I've tried to "muster up" the Spirit when my life was in chaos. My heart and prayers go out to Adrian even now and to anyone who has given his/her life to ministry week in and week out. I love God for upholding Him in His everlasting arms when it gets tough to preach.

How do you get the "filling?" Seek it where it may be found. For me, it's scripture. Reading God's word is an "out of body experience" for me. I had an associate pastor who had "flashbacks" to his drug days. He said he could anticipate the onset of these hallucinations and when he did, he just buried himself in the word. If he found he was losing his concentration, he said he would go back to the start of the passage he was reading and refocus. Do you know he said that the hallucinations went away (Real example of being drunk, not with wine, but with the Spirit)! This was a former field goal kicker for the Los Angeles Rams who said that when he wouldn't go run with his "booz buddies" anymore, they didn't understand it. I don't want to wait till heaven to learn his lesson, do you? I want to be filled more often than the "academicians" I cited will allow by their definitions and descriptions!

skypair

 

[John of Japan]

That was my next question. What condition must exist for the "filling" of the Holy Spirit. I have heard that list, BTW, and I believe that puts up too many "barriers."

IMO, one must be a "born again" believer engaged in some activity where one would expect to "meet" the Spirit -- Bible reading/study, hearing the word preached, singing hymns, worshipping God, etc. I do believe one thing applies -- you cannot have "idols before your face" and expect answers of the Lord. This means to me, I can't be letting my mind wander while I am actively seeking to be filled or I'll miss it!

However, I would distinguish from this a more acute need for the filling -- the one you gentlemen have of being "appointed" on such and such a date and time to present the word. I have a little experience with this having presented Bible lessons before. In the main, I had not laid out beforehand any agenda ("Seven Sermons on Romans," or anything). That would seem to rely even more on the these other items that you list.

As to item #7, though -- I don't believe one can presume this. One can always believe that the message, if it is God's word, is filled. But I don't believe it is necessary that we have a "fresh filling" ourselves before we go preach a sermon that 1) filled us before or 2) comes from God's word which itself embodies the fullness of the Spirit to those who pay attention.

skypair

I believe there is a special filling for preachers, an anointing if you will. This often occurs at ordination, as we find in 2 Tim. 1:6--"Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands."

In my own case, after my ordination I wrote, "My memories of that time will always be sweet and keen, and one special prayer was answered. When George Whitefield was ordained, he received a special infilling of the Holy Spirit. I had prayed that the Spirit might come upon me in a special way, also. The result of that prayer was being given strength by God."

 

[John of Japan]

Those are tremendous stories!

I believe that, by and large, the issue of filling is to focus on God, not on ourselves. Seaching for His mind, emotions, and will --- not our own.

Much of "filling" I would compare with being "seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" for awhile and just interacting with Him. One way I forgot to mention but which has "transported" me and you as well, no doubt, is prayer -- trying to be filled with God's sense of the things I am praying for (His thoughts, His motives/love, His timing).

BTW, your grandad was pastor at my former church, Bellevue Baptist, no?

skypair

Grandpa was Evangelist John R. Rice. He never pastored at Bellevue, but he preached there on occasion I'm sure. He only pastored in Texas, where he started 11 churches, and Wheaton IL, where he started another church.

He believed very strongly in the necessity of the power of the Holy Spirit for service and preached on it often with titles such as, "How Jesus Our Pattern Was Filled With the Spirit." Here is a link where you can buy this sermon in pamphlet form (only 60 cents!) as well as other books on the Holy Spirit by John R. Rice and others, including How to Obtain Fullness of Power, by R. A. Torrey, and Holy Spirit Power by Spurgeon: http://www.swordofthelord.com/osb/showitem.cfm?Category=149

 

[TCGreek]

Yes, we agree so far. So have you experienced it? How would you describe it if you did?

skypair

Skypair, this one of the most important questions I've ever been asked in the ministry.

Before I go into the pulpit I usually pray for the filling of the Spirit. The experience is subject to interpretation.

But I do believe that having asked for the filling of the Spirit, I am usually filled with the Spirit when I declare the gospel.

But I don't think that it is about how I feel. I think it has more to do with the convince and power the I present the message of the gospel.

 

[TCGreek]

I don't see Torrey's list as the final word. I see it as one viewpoint, but I do believe that if a sincere Christian follows Torrey's list step by step, the Lord will fill him. I don't mean that as pragmatism, "Do this and you will be successful." I mean it as true, internal, faith-filled desire to walk with God and be used by Him. So in that sense the most important point on Torrey's list is (5) Thirst for power. This means you will surrender your will to God, you will walk with Him, you will pray for His power.

I do agree with this.

A little book by another old timer called Quiet Talks on Power, by S. D. Gordon, says this well throughout the book. Or there is always Spurgeon, who I know you love: "Love the Spirit, worship the Spirit, trust the Spirit, obey the Spirit, and, as a church, cry mightily to the Spirit. Beseech him to let his mighty power be felt and known among you." (His sermon on "The Paraclete" in a little collection of his sermons on the Spirit, The Holy Spirit.)

Is it really about desiring the Spirit, or is it about desiring to serve God and then he fills you with his Spirit?

What makes this verse a key is: (1) They prayed. The fullness of the Holy Spirit must be prayed for as they did here and as the disciples in the upper room before Pentecost did. Some writers deny the need of prayer for the filling of the Spirit. They believe being filled with the Spirit simply means being controlled by the Spirit, and the result is the fruit of the Spirit. But the way to a better Christian life is walking in the Spirit, not the fullness. (2) They were filled, and then spoke the Word with boldness. So the result is not sinless perfection (Holiness), a good Christian life (some dispensationalists), tongues, or just a great feeling. It is bold service for Christ.

John, it seems like they prayed to serve and then were equipped to serve:

"Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus" (vv.29, 30)

I find this important because the charismatics pray for the Spirit only to "speak in tongues."

I think any such list will end up being similar to Torrey's. Anyone who deeply studies this will learn some of the same things. I've already mentioned prayer as in Acts 4:31. There is the thirst for God's power in Is. 44:3. Then obviously one who is happy in his sin and wants God's power without the price of abandoning sin will never be filled. Then there is the command to tarry in Luke 24:49. The best writers all mention tarrying, waiting, truly being serious about receiving God's power.

But again, to me it is all summed up in the thirst and the prayer.

Yes, a desire to serve God in a clean vessel:

"Now in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and clay, some for honorable use, some for dishonorable. Therefore,if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work" (2 Tim 2:20, 21).

 

[DHK]

Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

 

[TCGreek]

Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

DHK, so what is your view on the filling of the Spirit?

 

[John of Japan]

Is it really about desiring the Spirit, or is it about desiring to serve God and then he fills you with his Spirit?

I think it can be about either one or both. One may desire the filling of the Holy Spirit (who already indwells the believer, as you'll agree, so it is not about receiving the Spirit) for the purpose of serving God, or one may want deeply to serve God and be filled for that purpose. It's not about having the right doctrine of the Holy Spirit.

What it is not about is anything selfish, of course. It's not about being filled with the Spirit to be a great preacher or build a big church or writing best sellers. It's about God accomplishing His purposes through us. So Spirit-filled Philip (Acts 6:3) preached to great crowds in Samaria, but then was led by the Spirit off into the desert to win one Ethiopian.

John, it seems like they prayed to serve and then were equipped to serve:

"Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus" (vv.29, 30)

I find this important because the charismatics pray for the Spirit only to "speak in tongues."

Exactly. I agree 100%. I once had some people from a "latter rain" church try to steal my members. So I sat down with them and my folk and we studied the Bible about the matter. At one point God led me to ask, "Acts mentions the baptism of the Holy Spirit eight times. How many times do you think tongues occurred?" The wife thought five or six, but it was only two! (I haven't checked this, just going by memory now.) She was amazed and disappointed.

Yes, a desire to serve God in a clean vessel:

"Now in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and clay, some for honorable use, some for dishonorable. Therefore,if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work" (2 Tim 2:20, 21).

A clean vessel is needed, yes. However, there are cases in the OT where God of His own will for His own purposes gave power to vessels that were not always clean, such as Samson. But I think in the NT age the vessel must be clean.

Maybe that's why the usual OT term (except for Bezaleel in Ex. 31:3 and 35:31) is not "filled with the Spirit." I believe that when the Holy Spirit began to indwell believers, from that time a clean vessel became needed.