Finish the Sentence...

Who's "Faith", God's faith or man's faith??

If it's God's faith, then why is man (abraham) credited with the faith??

If Grace come "THROUGH" Faith, then Faith must be present before the grace can pass "THROUGH" to get to you.

Your talking in Circles.

 

So far as I have read on the first page no one has paid any attention to your reply to EdSutton. I’m inserting here your Ephesians 2:8 reference, ”For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of Go/”

Christian faith, ituttut </font>[/QUOTE]

Not sure if you mean me, here, per se, for here I am a "nobody" talking about one who is definitely "SOMEBODY!", but my own post was meant to say that the actual words "I am saved by..." do not occur in Eph.2:5,8 or anywhere else in Scripture, to my knowledge. The words here, You or ye - (second person plural noun, not first person singular I) have been {or were} saved ['perfect' tense (completed- saved in 'the past, with the result that I'm still saved; passive voice- as opposed to active- God saved me, I didn't save myself; indicative- this is fact, not just possibility or how it does happen, but rather how it's ALREADY happened, as opposed to present tense- 'am' and 'it's a possibility that'] by [by is not found here, in either verse 5 or 8, but is derived from the instrumental case of (the) grace]. The usage, here, of the definite 'the' in the Greek language, tells us that this is something specific, and not just any old grace, or faith.

Both verses therefore, do not tell us that "I am saved by...", meaning 'here is how it's gonna' happen', but rather (amplified), the definitive "By this grace, (all of) you have (already) been saved, through this faith..." meaning 'THIS is what HAS happened'.

And the results are sure! I don't know if "I've finished the sentence", in a satisfactory manner, but "God has made the statement", and His statement is MORE than satisfactory.
In His grace,
Ed

[ March 12, 2006, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: EdSutton ]

 

It doesn't matter "IF":

1. you believe or not
2. obey the law or not
3. accept Jesus or not
4. seek salvation or not
5. pray or not
6. study the scriptures or not
7. repent or not

It's a "DONE DEAL" regardless of what we do/don't do.

We have a "license" to do anything we want because it won't make any difference in God's "predestined plans".

I'm just trying to figure out why God wrote all the "other stuff" in the scripture if the two verses in Ro 9 explains the whole plan,

any ideas??

 

Quotation marks are used for quotation and when a word is not standard English usage. They are not used for emphasis. Italics are used for emphasis. Quite often quotation marks are not necessary. The words are pregnant with meaning without them.
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Example:

We have a license to do anything we want because it won't make any difference in God's predestined plans.

I'm just trying to figure out why God wrote all the other "stuff" in the scripture if the two verses in Ro 9 explains the whole plan....
_________

Using a standard format for grammar facilitates understanding.

(I don't see a graphic for professor or doctor ).

 

There's another way to prove the same thing by scripture.

1. Hebrews 11:6 Without faith it is impossible to please God.

2. Romans 8:8 Those who are in the flesh [unsaved] cannot please God.

If those who are in the flesh were capable of faith on their own, then is would be possible for them to please God. But Romans 8:8 says it is not possible for those in the flesh to please God.

Now I can already hear the free willer rebuttal. "Romans 8:8 isn't referring to the unsaved, it's referring to Carnal people." Wrong. Look at the verse that immediately follows:

There you have it. Those who are in the flesh are those without the Spirit and do not belong to Christ. Those who have the Spirit and belong to Christ are not in the flesh. It's talking about the unsaved/saved.

 

Well, it's interpreted as all sorts of things, but it can only be translated as "believe". Usually, people want to infer what they already believe, and interpreting it as something else works very well for that. Now, as a present, active, it is synonymous with "faith".

Aorist is punctiliar action; it is not durative. If you graph it, it is a dot. It can be a big dot, such as the building of the temple, or it can be a little dot, such as squeezing the trigger of a gun. The point is that you cannot undo the action (although you can undo the results of the action), and you cannot stop doing something in the aorist. If you are believing in the present tense, you can stop it.

In no place have I inferred that the aorist is past tense, although that's the way it's usually translated. Neither have I inferred that it has anything to do with a specific duration of time. If you believe on the Lord Jesus as your savior and quit moments later, guess what? You have believed in the aorist tense. If you believe on the Lord Jesus and you keep believing for the rest of your life, guess what? You have believed in the aorist.

The point is that there is nothing (no works) involved on your part for achieving or maintaining your spiritual salvation. It's all done by accepting the free gift that has been extended to you.

 

So far as I have read on the first page no one has paid any attention to your reply to EdSutton. I’m inserting here your Ephesians 2:8 reference, ”For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of Go/”

Christian faith, ituttut </font>[/QUOTE]

Not sure if you mean me, here, per se, etc.
Ed </font>[/QUOTE]Hello Ed. No wonder the confusion, and thanks for pointing out. I made a “blunder” here, as reference should have been to Calvibaptist’s post for input to finish his sentence.

Christian faith, ituttut

 

In order to believe, one has to have faith. Belief and Faith are so much more than simply saying the words "I believe". Belief is knowledge and practice.

Many men have said the words "I believe" but belied the fact in the living of thier lives. If you say you believe and that you have faith in Jesus Christ to save you, and your faith is without works and love, than your faith is dead.

The Bible likewise is to be used, read, worn, written in and wrestled with, it should be a part of our very being as a born again child of Christ.

In todays Church we say "I have faith" and we say I am saved by faith and our faith and my belief will save us, in other groups such as the UCC, UMC, and others they believe more in salvation through works.

But if we read the second chapter of the book of James, we gat a clear picture of Salvation and faith and works. The evidence of our belief and faith is that we obey His commandments, and that we strive to emulate our Lord and Saviour. Our faith and our belief is evidenced in the living of our lives and through our works. Faith without works is dead, and likewise works with out faith is dead.

Many men have said they believed but belied the fact in the living of their lives. Thier are many who will stand before the throne on that day and say "But Lord, did we not heal the sick, raise the dead and do many wonderful things in your name, and He'll say depart from me, I never knew you..."

If you say you have faith and that you believe and your life is void of a personal relationship with Him, and your faith is not evidenced by your works. If your heart is hardened against people just because of thier clothes, financial position, the neighborhood they live in, the fact the person may have spent time in jail, or that she was once a prostitute or what ever... Than the Love of Christ is not in you, your heart is void, and your looking a little like one of the goats.

 

I wouldn't use those exact words but I follow you so far.

You forgot the part about "you who practice iniquity", which - on the surface - seems to contradict what they said they were doing. But let's get to the point.

Depart from me - why? Because I never knew you.

I don't think the message here is that works without faith is dead. I think the message here is that Jesus never knew them. As opposed to whom? As opposed to these: