Fire

[RLBosley]

Bro, with all due respect, I'd accept that from you, but for the fact I'm not doing this myself. He's looking for a squabble.

Furthermore to condemn both (and by your admittance you haven't looked over the 'squabbles') is to rush to judgment. If I have offended you, I right here apologize for doing so. I don't see anything in this thread where I've behaved as the dr is behaving.

It might be best to just play the dr off and continue the dialogue without such interruptions?

- Blessings

I apologize if you thought I was condemning you. I wasn't trying to condemn either. As I said, I haven't seen who is in the right or wrong and therefore cannot make any kind of call with a good conscience. You haven't offended me in the slightest.

Apologies. You're right, it's your thread. No excuses offered here.

Not really my thread but I gotcha.


Again I truly apologize if either of you thought I was condemning.

 

[HisWitness]

No brother, I didn't say they would escape "through" a fire. That would mean they endured a fire.

Two versions say this: “Yet it will be like an escape through a fire….” and "but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."

"Like" and "as" - these give an analogy, NOT a literal description. The analogy is just as one escapes untouched by a house fire, but his material possession burn, the Christians whose works burn will still be a Christian, but with no reward.

"like an escape through fire" and "an escape through fire" are two different things.

ok i see what you are saying now and do agree :love2::love2:

 

[HisWitness]

but i hardly think in the other scripture that God would send someone to HELL FIRE for calling someone a fool--Christians have in anger and frustration have done this very thing--do you think they will go to HELL FIRE :love2::love2:

 

[preacher4truth]

I apologize if you thought I was condemning you. I wasn't trying to condemn either. As I said, I haven't seen who is in the right or wrong and therefore cannot make any kind of call with a good conscience. You haven't offended me in the slightest.



Not really my thread but I gotcha.


Again I truly apologize if either of you thought I was condemning.

No problem.

- Blessings

 

[RLBosley]

No problem.

- Blessings

Thank you and blessing to you as well.

but i hardly think in the other scripture that God would send someone to HELL FIRE for calling someone a fool--Christians have in anger and frustration have done this very thing--do you think they will go to HELL FIRE :love2::love2:

That is a small section that in context shows he is talking about hatred of another person.

Matt 5 also talks about self righteousness, revenge and lust. Sadly Christians are guilty of those as well. That doesn't mean that the believer who commits these sins will go to Hell fire. But they will be deserving of it since these sins require retribution from God. That's the whole purpose of salvation, God saving us from His wrath. Even though we deserve His wrath He has turned that away from us because Jesus took our place.

So those who commit such acts are deserving of Hell Fire - But the Christian will escape that because of what Christ has done.

 

[Scarlett O.]

but i hardly think in the other scripture that God would send someone to HELL FIRE for calling someone a fool--Christians have in anger and frustration have done this very thing--do you think they will go to HELL FIRE :love2::love2:

"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell."

This comes from one of my favorite parts of the Bible - the Sermon on the Mount.

Jesus, in part, is having to UNdo all the incorrect teachings from the teachers of the law. They made the law ALL about works and external issues. The heart of the matter - pun intended - wasn't significant to them.

Jesus says that they've been taught that murder was wrong - and it was.

But, this superficial idea of what murder was, allowed for anything done to someone as long as they weren't killed. Hate, scorn, and more weren't addressed at all.

Jesus is saying that if you get so ANGRY to the point that you call someone a "fool" - and remember, the Old Testament says, "the fool has said in his heart that there is no God" - you are assassinating not only their character, but judging their righteousness and we have no right to do that.

To me, Jesus is saying, "yes, murder is a grievious sin that can lead to hell, but so is hate, venomous anger, and the 'murder' of others with the tongue if left unrepentant."

These people - being lead by the nose - by scribes and more, avoided physical murder, but hate .... they never gave it a second thought.

 

[RLBosley]

This comes from one of my favorite parts of the Bible - the Sermon on the Mount.

Jesus, in part, is having to UNdo all the incorrect teachings from the teachers of the law. They made the law ALL about works and external issues. The heart of the matter - pun intended - wasn't significant to them.

Jesus says that they've been taught that murder was wrong - and it was.

But, this superficial idea of what murder was, allowed for anything done to someone as long as they weren't killed. Hate, scorn, and more weren't addressed at all.

Jesus is saying that if you get so ANGRY to the point that you call someone a "fool" - and remember, the Old Testament says, "the fool has said in his heart that there is no God" - you are assassinating not only their character, but judging their righteousness and we have no right to do that.

To me, Jesus is saying, "yes, murder is a grievious sin that can lead to hell, but so is hate, venomous anger, and the 'murder' of others with the tongue if left unrepentant."

These people - being lead by the nose - by scribes and more, avoided physical murder, but hate .... they never gave it a second thought.

Precisely.

 

[HisWitness]

Thank you and blessing to you as well.



That is a small section that in context shows he is talking about hatred of another person.

Matt 5 also talks about self righteousness, revenge and lust. Sadly Christians are guilty of those as well. That doesn't mean that the believer who commits these sins will go to Hell fire. But they will be deserving of it since these sins require retribution from God. That's the whole purpose of salvation, God saving us from His wrath. Even though we deserve His wrath He has turned that away from us because Jesus took our place.

So those who commit such acts are deserving of Hell Fire - But the Christian will escape that because of what Christ has done.

the way you say that brother sounds like you are giving the saints a go to do these things since they will not be punished for their sins ?

 

[RLBosley]

the way you say that brother sounds like you are giving the saints a go to do these things since they will not be punished for their sins ?

Not at all. Paul tackled that argument in Romans 6.


What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [Rom 6:1 KJV]

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? [Rom 6:2 KJV]

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [Rom 6:3 KJV]

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. [Rom 6:6 KJV]

For he that is dead is freed from sin. [Rom 6:7 KJV]

Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: [Rom 6:8 KJV]

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. [Rom 6:12 KJV]

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. [Rom 6:14 KJV]

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. [Rom 6:15 KJV]

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? [Rom 6:16 KJV]

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. [Rom 6:17 KJV]

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. [Rom 6:18 KJV]



What you are saying seems to be that, while yes there will be a "trial by fire" even unbelievers will be saved in the end. Is that right?

 

[preacher4truth]

This comes from one of my favorite parts of the Bible - the Sermon on the Mount.

Jesus, in part, is having to UNdo all the incorrect teachings from the teachers of the law. They made the law ALL about works and external issues. The heart of the matter - pun intended - wasn't significant to them.

Jesus says that they've been taught that murder was wrong - and it was.

But, this superficial idea of what murder was, allowed for anything done to someone as long as they weren't killed. Hate, scorn, and more weren't addressed at all.

Jesus is saying that if you get so ANGRY to the point that you call someone a "fool" - and remember, the Old Testament says, "the fool has said in his heart that there is no God" - you are assassinating not only their character, but judging their righteousness and we have no right to do that.

To me, Jesus is saying, "yes, murder is a grievious sin that can lead to hell, but so is hate, venomous anger, and the 'murder' of others with the tongue if left unrepentant."

These people - being lead by the nose - by scribes and more, avoided physical murder, but hate .... they never gave it a second thought.

This is a favorite of mine as well.

D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones 'Studies in the Sermon on the Mount' and Robert Harris's 'The Way to True Happiness' are excellent works on this sermon. If you've not read these, I highly recommend them.

A person could spend thousands of lifetimes reaping gold nuggets from the words of Christ here and still fall well short of all their implications. But they are glorious liberating truths nonetheless, and quite convicting.

- Blessings

 

[HisWitness]

Not at all. Paul tackled that argument in Romans 6.


What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [Rom 6:1 KJV]

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? [Rom 6:2 KJV]

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [Rom 6:3 KJV]

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. [Rom 6:6 KJV]

For he that is dead is freed from sin. [Rom 6:7 KJV]

Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: [Rom 6:8 KJV]

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. [Rom 6:12 KJV]

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. [Rom 6:14 KJV]

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. [Rom 6:15 KJV]

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? [Rom 6:16 KJV]

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. [Rom 6:17 KJV]

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. [Rom 6:18 KJV]



What you are saying seems to be that, while yes there will be a "trial by fire" even unbelievers will be saved in the end. Is that right?

here again romans 5 says that ALL shall be made righteous

 

[preacher4truth]

here again romans 5 says that ALL shall be made righteous

Yes. ALL in Christ. This is contextual.

Or do you mean each and every single person that has ever lived?

 

[Amy.G]

here again romans 5 says that ALL shall be made righteous

It doesn't say "all" shall be made righteous. It says many. Contextually, the "many" that are in Adam are condemned, the "many" that are in Christ are made righteous.

Romans 5:19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

 

[HisWitness]

Yes. ALL in Christ. This is contextual.

Or do you mean each and every single person that has ever lived?

nope your wrong the both many's in that text is either both not all or both all of mankind--in like manner means the same.

you are adding to the scripture here

all through adam was concluded in sin
all through Christ shall obtain mercy
or shall be made righteous

 

[HisWitness]

It doesn't say "all" shall be made righteous. It says many. Contextually, the "many" that are in Adam are condemned, the "many" that are in Christ are made righteous.

Romans 5:19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

both conclude that many is ALL of mankind---why slice the scriptures up because it goes against your tradition ??

 

[Scarlett O.]

D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones 'Studies in the Sermon on the Mount' and Robert Harris's 'The Way to True Happiness' are excellent works on this sermon. If you've not read these, I highly recommend them.

I'll have to look these up, thanks.

 

[preacher4truth]

I'll have to look these up, thanks.

You are welcome Scarlett. Also check out this link for Martyn Lloyd-Jones messages on TSOTM and more.

 

[preacher4truth]

nope your wrong the both many's in that text is either both not all or both all of mankind--in like manner means the same.

you are adding to the scripture here

all through adam was concluded in sin
all through Christ shall obtain mercy
or shall be made righteous

Yep. You're a universalist. Not to mention an ME'er.

These are reasons you misrepresent truth. :wavey:

 

[Amy.G]

both conclude that many is ALL of mankind---why slice the scriptures up because it goes against your tradition ??

My "tradition" is the word of God.

2 Thess 1:6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

 

[HisWitness]

if HELL was like the way you think it is--then let me ask a honest question to you all and be honest in yourselves when you answer --you don't have to even post on this--just answer the question between you and God.

We all have loved ones,friends,family,neighbors that are on their way to this HELL you say------------------------------------------------------------

How many times in each day that passes by do you fall upon your faces and weep and intercede for all of these people that are going to that place ???

im not talking about just a simple prayer with no emotions and your done--rubbish!!!!!

im talking about sincere love for those people that brings you to your knees at least just 1 time a day to intercede for them-with weeping and crying and pleading on their behalves ???? do you do this at least once per day ???

do you really believe what you say about this HELL ???

you can only lie to yourself and God when you answer this question in your heart--so how is it with you :tear::tear::tear: