First charges filed in Mueller investigation

[Baptist Believer]

The charges against manafurt have nothing to do with Trump, his campaign, or the mythical Russia collusion.

Have I made that claim? (Psst... the answer is no.)

However, Manafort was part of the Trump campaign at a critical time related to Russian meddling. The charges against Manafort and Gates do not necessarily have anything to do with President Trump. We'll just see how things go.

The investigation is premised on a debunked "dossier'...

The FBI and/or Mueller have debunked it? Please provide evidence.

...and the investigative team is intentionally stacked against Trump.

We are talking about Manafort and Gates. Why are you so worried about President Trump if he is innocent? Just as you claim, these charges are not directed at President Trump.

So it appears they can find nothing with regard to Russia Collusion...

You have information about the Mueller investigation that is not available to the public? Do tell!

Just as a reminder, Donald Trump, Jr., personally released e-mails stating that he was interested in getting dirt on Hillary Clinton from a highly placed source in the Russian government, so that's at least an attempt at collusion. And that's the President's son, acting with members of Trump's campaign. So there is at least some attempt to collude with the Russian government.

...so they find other charges to put pressure on him to speak of things they cannot find in order to make a deal.

No doubt this may get him to try to make a deal, but that's may not be what Mueller is after. Remember, Flynn wanted to make a deal in exchange for immunity, and as far as I know, Mueller's team has not made any deals with him.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

I agree. Except you want to sprinkle perfume on it and I want it cleaned up and the whole government sanitized.

 

[HankD]

All posters, I would appreciate it if you would not choke this important thread with the uranium deal issue. Please do that on another thread.

Moderators, I would appreciate your assistance with policing that request.

Why not?

Mueller was supposed to deal with "collusion with the Russians". Clearly the Uranium One deal is "collusion with the Russians".


HankD

 

[Baptist Believer]

President Donald Trump’s name does not appear one time in his former campaign manager Paul Manafort’s indictment records released Monday.

That's a classic case of missing the point. You really need to get better sources than "The Daily Caller."

 

[Revmitchell]

That's a classic case of missing the point. You really need to get better sources than "The Daily Caller."

Dailly Caller is a great source and very credible. And no its not missing the point.

 

[Baptist Believer]

An indictment filed by special counsel Robert Mueller Monday incorrectly identifies Ukrainian politician Yulia Tymoshenko as a former Ukrainian president when she is in fact a former prime minister.

Oh no! Then we must toss the whole thing about because it is not inerrant.

It appears to be a trivial matter unrelated to the essence of the case. Maybe they can get that count thrown out because of the error.

 

[InTheLight]

This is a witch hunt with no real basis. Mueller has stacked his investigative team with DNC people. The investigation itself lacks credibility.

 

[Revmitchell]

Have I made that claim? (Psst... the answer is no.)

However, Manafort was part of the Trump campaign at a critical time related to Russian meddling. The charges against Manafort and Gates do not necessarily have anything to do with President Trump. We'll just see how things go.


The FBI and/or Mueller have debunked it? Please provide evidence.


We are talking about Manafort and Gates. Why are you so worried about President Trump if he is innocent? Just as you claim, these charges are not directed at President Trump.


You have information about the Mueller investigation that is not available to the public? Do tell!

Just as a reminder, Donald Trump, Jr., personally released e-mails stating that he was interested in getting dirt on Hillary Clinton from a highly placed source in the Russian government, so that's at least an attempt at collusion. And that's the President's son, acting with members of Trump's campaign. So there is at least some attempt to collude with the Russian government.


No doubt this may get him to try to make a deal, but that's may not be what Mueller is after. Remember, Flynn wanted to make a deal in exchange for immunity, and as far as I know, Mueller's team has not made any deals with him.


I agree. Except you want to sprinkle perfume on it and I want it cleaned up and the whole government sanitized.

I don't believe you.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Mueller was supposed to deal with "collusion with the Russians". Clearly the Uranium One deal is "collusion with the Russians".

I would be happy for him to investigate that. You act as if the two things cannot be investigated together.

But please don't clutter this thread with the Uranium One allegations. Please take that to another thread.

 

[Revmitchell]

Oh no! Then we must toss the whole thing about because it is not inerrant.

Uh yea, that is how it works. The charges have to be exact and without error.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I don't believe you.

That's your issue, not mine. A few minutes ago you asserted that you didn't think the truth could be known until you walked that back.

I'll soldier on with the knowledge that you don't believe me and continue to call for truth to triumph and evil to be exposed and dealt with.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Uh yea, that is how it works. The charges have to be exact and without error.

That's for a judge to decide. As I wrote before, maybe he can get it knocked down to 11 counts.

 

[Revmitchell]

That's your issue, not mine. A few minutes ago you asserted that you didn't think the truth could be known until you walked that back.

Over the years, even though we agree on very little, We have gotten along because you always posted with integrity. You seem to have lost your way when it comes to Trump and all things related to him. I have walked back nothing, you know it, and I find it sad that you have chosen to be so dishonest. Shame on you.

 

[InTheLight]

Remember this? Manafort, who was Trump's campaign chair (and was chair for longer than anyone else) and a PR professional stumbles badly when trying to deny ties to Russian oligarchs.

 

[InTheLight]

Over the years, even though we agree on very little, We have gotten along because you always posted with integrity. You seem to have lost your way when it comes to Trump and all things related to him. I have walked back nothing, you know it, and I find it sad that you have chosen to be so dishonest. Shame on you.

And there it is. Can't handle Trump being criticized so attack the messenger.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Over the years, even though we agree on very little, We have gotten along because you always posted with integrity.

I still do.

You seem to have lost your way when it comes to Trump and all things related to him.

No. What you are seeing now is someone who recognizes a clear and present danger to our nation and has been sounding the alarm since early 2016.

I have walked back nothing, you know it, and I find it sad that you have chosen to be so dishonest.

You clearly wrote, "No, to it all," quoting what I had previously written. If you just wrote "no," I would have no basis to call you out on anything since you would not have made yourself clear. However there was a series of questions for all to see that you said "No, to it all."

It is there for all to see. I even acknowledged that you probably didn't mean what you said.

You claimed that I was "playing a game" with you on that point. The only game playing I'm doing is taking your seriously, which has gotten very hard to do.

Shame on you.

You are misdirecting your shame.

 

[Baptist Believer]

And a third person indicted, George Papadopoulos, Trump's foreign policy advisor during part of the campaign, has ALREADY plead guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Kremlin-connected Russians.

So it looks that Mueller might be on to something...

 

[Revmitchell]

More than anything else, the indictments of Paul Manafort and his partner Rick Gates demonstrate the fraudulent nature of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation. The probe has little to do with Russian interference in last year’s election. Instead, it is calculated to protect Mueller and a cabal within the FBI and Justice Department who covered up crimes by Hillary Clinton because they believed it was likely that she would be elected president.

And once Mueller and then his friend and successor James Comey covered for Hillary, they had to keep covering. There was a reason that Mueller was so available when he was so swiftly appointed Special Counsel in May by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. The Comey firing threatened to expose all that these same officials had swept under the rug. Yes, Rosenstein bit the bullet and drafted the memo that was the legal basis for firing Comey, but it would be followed by appointing Mueller.

In July, Comey preemptively exonerated Hillary despite her maintenance of a private email server and mishandling of classified material. By accusing her of being “extremely careless,” he purposely distracted attention from the context of the emails. Hillary and Bill Clinton operated an aggressive shakedown operation of domestic and foreign interests, many of which are unsavory and criminal. Concealing the true nature of the operation was at least part of the Clintons’ motivation for the private server.

Manafort Indictment Shows That Mueller Is A Fraud

 

[Baptist Believer]

More than anything else, the indictments of Paul Manafort and his partner Rick Gates demonstrate the fraudulent nature of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation.

Isn't that story fun? It advances a whole conspiracy theory and studiously avoids the question as to whether or not the charges are true.

It does not engage with the indictment at all, but simply condemns it outright, alleging that the indictments (in an unstated way) somehow demonstrate their allegedly fraudulent nature.

It also ignores the third person indicted, George Papadopoulos, and that he has already plead guilty to the charges against him.

It seems to be a classic bid to divert attention from what is real - "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

 

[InTheLight]

More than anything else... demonstrate the fraudulent nature of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation.

Classic question begging. Assumes the conclusion is true, therefore the further argument is also true.

The probe has little to do with Russian interference in last year’s election.

So what? This is a deflection. In the course of investigating the Russian meddling in the election the investigator allegedly turns up a different crime. Should we ignore it?

And once Mueller and then his friend and successor James Comey covered for Hillary, they had to keep covering.

More question begging. Assumes the conclusion is true, therefore the further argument is also true.

In July, Comey preemptively exonerated Hillary despite her maintenance of a private email server and mishandling of classified material. By accusing her of being “extremely careless,” he purposely distracted attention from the context of the emails. Hillary and Bill Clinton operated an aggressive shakedown operation of domestic and foreign interests, many of which are unsavory and criminal. Concealing the true nature of the operation was at least part of the Clintons’ motivation for the private server.

And more deflection.

I don't know if Manafort is guilty or not, but this style of arguing is fallacious.

 

[Use of Time]

I

Over the years, even though we agree on very little, We have gotten along because you always posted with integrity. You seem to have lost your way when it comes to Trump and all things related to him. I have walked back nothing, you know it, and I find it sad that you have chosen to be so dishonest. Shame on you.

You did not ever post a coherent response to anything he said. You completely wiffed on the main point and now are accusing him of being dishonest because you don't have the ability to articulate your own position without the help of a canned article. Stick to copying and posting because you are sinking on your own.