FIVE POINT ARMINIAN

[BobRyan]

quote:
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There is no reference in Lev 16 to the scapegoat being anyting OTHER than "the LIVE Goat".

There is no reference in the Lev 16 model to the Scapegoat dying AT ALL!
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In scripture, there isn't, but Israel understood it, that's why the colored cloth was tied around the column, when the GOAT died, the cloth turned "White".

My assumption is that we are basing doctrine on SCRIPTURE not superstitious stories outside the Bible that are not ever seen in real life.

Can we agree on that basis for doctrine?

God's CONSISTENT reference to the scapegoat as the "LIVE GOAT" is "instructive".

It is not a sin offering and its death is not a part of the "substitutionary atonement" in that it is not referenced AT ALL in the chapter.

Your own response admits that this is true IF we look at "scripture" for our doctrinal beliefs.

That speaks volumes.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by BobRyan:

That is beyond debate. All scholars admit that the term is defined in Lev.

And ALL agree that IN Lev 16 the term "Sin offering" is used to refer to the Lord's goat "alone" in vs 16.


Lev 16[/b]
15 ""Then he shall slaughter the goat of the sin offering which is for the people, and bring its blood inside the veil and do with its blood as he did with the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it on the mercy seat and in front of the mercy seat.

The fact that "Goat of the sin offering" can be an unnambiguous reference to the Lord's goat SHOWS that the Scapegoat is NOT a sin offering!

The fact that the PAssover lamb is ALSO a sin offering is noted in Leviticus AND by Paul in 1Cor 5 "Christ our PASSOVER has been slain".

There is just no escaping this!

But you are "MISSING THE POINT", the "JEWS DON'T", Jesus is the passover lamb for the church, He will be the "SCAPEGOAT" for the Jews.

Read the previous post describing Jesus's role in each feast.


The feast doesn't just describe/explain the feast, they also explain the NT and events in the NT, such as why there's a tribulation and why the church is "RAPTURE" before the trib.

Follow this link and read about the feast then scroll on down to the "Tribulation period" and find out "WHY" the Jews enter the trib and the church doesn't, this is all explained by the way the "FEAST" occur.

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3398.html

Here's how the Feast correspond to Scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

Paul is a Jew in 1 Cor 5 writing "CHRIST our PASSOVER is SLAIN". Your idea that I am the only one that notices it - and Jews don't ignores that fact.

Further --- the fact of Christ as the ATONING SACRIFICE is made in 1John 2:2 as well. It is the SIN OFFERING -- the SACRIFICE of the Lev 16 Day of Atonement that represents Christ.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

There is nothing in the feasts pointing to a pre-trib rapture. I thought we were clear on that.

But more specifically - there is only ONE sin offering in Lev 16 such that "THE sin offering" refers UNIQUELY to the "Lord's goat" once it is identified.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
There is nothing in the feasts pointing to a pre-trib rapture. I thought we were clear on that.

But more specifically - there is only ONE sin offering in Lev 16 such that "THE sin offering" refers UNIQUELY to the "Lord's goat" once it is identified.

In Christ,

Bob

Le 16:11 And Aaron shall bring the bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and shall make an atonement for himself, and for his house,

Arron had to make "Atonement" for "HIMSELF", his "PERSONAL SINS", before making "Atonement for the people.

And then, the goat killed was for the "Personal Sins" of the people", the same as Arron.


Le 16:15 Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, (Personal sins) and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:

This is the equivalent of us "CONFESSING" our sins. (sacrificing the "old man", body of sin)

Le 16:21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

The "flesh of man" sinned, and only the "flesh of man" could pay those wages, BUT it had to be a "MAN" without sin, even one sin, and only God is "GOOD", (without sin) so only "GOD IN FLESH" could pay the wages of sin. (Jesus/Scapegoat)

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
There is nothing in the feasts pointing to a pre-trib rapture. I thought we were clear on that.

In Christ,

Bob

God uses the AC as a "ROD" to chastise Israel for rejecting Jesus, he suffer the "STRIPES" in "HIS FLESH" for the Church,

Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.


however the "STRIPES" in "ISRAEL'S FLESH" will be their physical death to have Jesus salvation.

Re 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,

and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Ps 89:20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:

Ps 89:30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;

31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

Isa 10:5 O Assyrian,(AC) the rod of mine anger, and the staff (leadership) in their hand is mine indignation.

God's "ROD" turns into a "serpent", just like Moses/Arron, when "cast down to the earth".

If you're "ELECT" (saved) and rebell against God, here's what happens.

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

And that is "precisely" what God does to Israel during the trib, or any "Virgins" who let their light go out.

The "blood" of the "Passover lamb" protected only the "FIRSTBORN" (church) from this "DEATH", therefore we "literally Passover" (Pre trib rapture) the coming "day of Atonement" (trib) for the rest of the world.

Israel goes back under the "law and prophet" during the trib (Two witnesses, Moses/Elijah) but Leadership by both "law and prophet" and "Holy Ghost", (comforter) DO NOT function at the same time, in the same time frame, this is one reason, among many, why the "comforter" is "taken out of the way", before the AC is revealed.