Fla passes death penalty bill

[Salty]

(wrong link - go to post # 3

 

[canadyjd]

??????

Fla passed death penalty turns into Serena Williams pregnancy announcement?

Happy for her, seems like a great lady.

I think you might have been doing too many things at once Salty

peace to you

 

[Salty]

??????

Fla passed death penalty turns into Serena Williams pregnancy announcement?

Happy for her, seems like a great lady.

I think you might have been doing too many things at once Salty

peace to you

sorry about t hat


lets try this one!
Gov. DeSantis signs controversial death penalty legislation

 

[canadyjd]

sorry about t hat


lets try this one!
Gov. DeSantis signs controversial death penalty legislation

Ok, now that’s interesting. I am opposed (personally) to the death penalty although I recognize God has given that authority to the government. That said, I really don’t believe they should be expanding the death penalty crimes or making it easier to be applied

A jury can now give the death penalty even if all 12 don’t agree. I didn’t see the new standard though. Is it 10 of 12? Is it majority (7 of 12)? Is it only 1?

Additionally, the legislature wants to add sexual battery of a child under 12 to be a death penalty case. How exactly is “sexual battery” defined? Is “groping” sexual battery? What if one 12 year old gropes an 11 year old? Is that a death penalty case?

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Additionally, this looks like DeSantis playing politics with the death penalty for 2024.

Thry could have passed these laws in his first term. Why now?

peace to you

 

[Salty]

I am in favor of the death penalty - esp for first degree murder.
My problem with the DP for sexual assault is this:

So a person sexually assaults a child - and if convicted,, he knows the penalty could/would be the DP - knowing that - what would prevent him from murdering the child?

 

[canadyjd]

I am in favor of the death penalty - esp for first degree murder.
My problem with the DP for sexual assault is this:

So a person sexually assaults a child - and if convicted,, he knows the penalty could/would be the DP - knowing that - what would prevent him from murdering the child?

I do see the point though I wouldn’t expect any kind of mercy or compassion from someone sexually assaulting a child.

There may b a deterrent effect for some

peace to you

 

[Salty]

I do see the point though I wouldn’t expect any kind of mercy or compassion from someone sexually assaulting a child.

There may b a deterrent effect for some

peace to you

In that case - life - no possibility of parole. in a remote location - no modern advantages - no TV, no radio, 2 meals a day, .....

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

This new law is not in the spirit of "It's better for ten guilty men to go free than for one innocent person be convicted".

Therefore I am against it.

 

[canadyjd]

In that case - life - no possibility of parole. in a remote location - no modern advantages - no TV, no radio, 2 meals a day, .....

Well, wardens use those perks as rewards for good behavior in prison.

I understand the impulse to punish such horrible crimes against children. Personally, I wouldn’t be opposed to public beatings with a cane prior to the start of the prison sentence for such crimes.

peace to you

 

[HeirofSalvation]

This new law is not in the spirit of "It's better for ten guilty men to go free than for one innocent person be convicted".

Yes, it is in that spirit.
"It's better for ten guilty men to go free than for one innocent person be convicted" has to do with being given rights to a fair trial before an impartial jury.
This does nothing to change that.
All this does, is say, that if given a fair trial before an impartial jury... If you rape a 12 year old in Florida, we will execute you.
This is absolutely and unequivocally righteous.

Therefore I am against it.

Generally, I don't disagree with you on much, but:
I think you are simply mistaken on this.
This does not go against that principle: (although, while I used to embrace it Universally, I am not sure I do anymore).
It simply says that: If you rape my 7-year-old daughter, (assuming a fair trial) Florida will [or at least may] execute you.
I approve 100%.........
I think it does not go far enough.

I despise rapists and the crime of it to the extent that:
1.) It should extend past the age of the victim to include victims of all ages.
2.) It is a more heinous crime than murder
3.) A rapist must have attained a certain level of depravity, such that they are even capable of committing such a crime.

I can believe that the average person (I even say myself) is capable of murder in certain circumstances.
I don't want to be overly graphic here but:
I cannot imagine being literally physically capable of raping an 8-year-old:
I could not accomplish that if I wanted to.

Someone capable of such a crime (again given a fair trial before an impartial jury)...must die.

I would expand this to make the death penalty not optional, but absolutely mandatory.
Similarly, you must understand that Florida (like Texas and New Mexico and Arizona) is being flooded with illegal immigrants who are vastly more likely to commit such heinous crimes.

The Carolinas are not flooded with illegals yet (as Florida is).
When they are, your tune might change.
I generally (again) respect your P.O.V: but, I have to disagree with you on this quite strongly.
God bless brother!

 

[JonC]

Ok, now that’s interesting. I am opposed (personally) to the death penalty although I recognize God has given that authority to the government. That said, I really don’t believe they should be expanding the death penalty crimes or making it easier to be applied

A jury can now give the death penalty even if all 12 don’t agree. I didn’t see the new standard though. Is it 10 of 12? Is it majority (7 of 12)? Is it only 1?

Additionally, the legislature wants to add sexual battery of a child under 12 to be a death penalty case. How exactly is “sexual battery” defined? Is “groping” sexual battery? What if one 12 year old gropes an 11 year old? Is that a death penalty case?

peace to you

Also, what if a man rapes a 12 year old but the girl trusted him and consented. Scripture specifically would place guilt on both. The man would have to marry the girl and pay the father (unless the girl was engaged ..then they are both to be killed).

If statutory rape if a child is counted then the resulting execution would be murder (biblically).

BTW, I agree with you regarding the death penalty. Christians often turn to Scripture to justify it, but do so inconsistently. The OT teaches that a man who kills another unjustly (this would include accidents, but not war) is to be killed. The man who didn't see a jogger and backed over her, killing her, would be subject to the death penalty or imprisonment for life.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Well, wardens use those perks as rewards for good behavior in prison.

I understand the impulse to punish such horrible crimes against children. Personally, I wouldn’t be opposed to public beatings with a cane prior to the start of the prison sentence for such crimes.

peace to you

I don't know where your information about how prisons actually work comes from:
But (only two meals a day) is simply not an option:
Not now, not ever:
And that is not a tool any Warden is ever capable of using.

I do know something about prison systems:

I've been an employee of the Federal Bureau of Prisons for 14 years: both as a correctional officer and as the Electrical foreman (keeping the electricity working, since we took away their microwaves.....they like to rip it apart and cook with what we call 'stingers').

Well, people are gonna eat.
That is fact. That is unavoidable

You cannot give a man an 800 year sentence:

And simultaneously expect us to have a lot of leverage against such a man..........
THEY DO NOT CARE!
They have nothing to lose.

What do you want us to do??? TORTURE HIM!

We cannot and will not do so.
Starving a man is not an option:
The prison system does not "punish" criminals for you:
Prisons ARE the punishment.
You have lost your freedom if you are in prison....

We do not make a man's life a living hell once he's there. He's imprisoned THAT'S his punishment. We do NOT make his life unnecessarily more difficult.
He (or she) is a human being made in the image of God.
We will not, should not, and are not taught to treat them any different.
They are in prison.....that is their punishment. We will not make it unnecessarily harsh or uncomfortable.

Prisons are not torture chambers.

If you give a man 300 years he has nothing to lose.
He now lives there: all he'll care about is making his life as comfortable as possible for the rest of his days.

If you insist on a society so pathetic that you never execute a man you never want to see again, and refuse to implement the death penalty on a man you want to disappear from the face of the earth:

Stop acting as though it is "merciful" and enlightened to cage them like an animal for 500 years.
It is not only not cost effective, or practical...........It is EVIL!

The death penalty is so much more merciful and enlightened than caging people like animals and asking prison staff to torture them for 100 years.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

In that case - life - no possibility of parole. in a remote location - no modern advantages - no TV, no radio, 2 meals a day, .....

Not going to happen, prisons do not and absolutely cannot work that way.
And how would you know that some deranged judges on the Supreme Court wouldn't invent a reason why they shouldn't be brought back into society in the next ten years?

The problem with not using the Death Penalty: is judges, that will hallucinate some rule in the Constitution which in their perverted minds insists you release them back to society to rape your grand-daughter immediately.

This is why I am pro death-penalty:

No drunken judge can hallucinate in crayon some reason why a rapist needs to be immediately released to sexually assault my 5 daughters.

"Life sentences ALWAYS mean that is a possibility". and defendants have endless appeals available to them.

(Also, prisons and prison staff aren't going to torture people for 50 years like you think we would, because it is both inhumane and stupid)

 

[canadyjd]

I don't know where your information about how prisons actually work comes from:…..

…..Stop acting as though it is "merciful" and enlightened to cage them like an animal for 500 years.
It is not only not cost effective, or practical...........It is EVIL!

The death penalty is so much more merciful and enlightened than caging people like animals and asking prison staff to torture them for 100 years.

So, you think it’s “evil” to put someone in prison for the rest of their lives and “merciful and enlightened” to just go ahead and put them to death. I suspect the people being put to death would not agree.

I will disagree with you.

BTW, I didn’t say torture people for 100 years of their 800 year sentence.

peace to you

 

[HeirofSalvation]

So, you think it’s “evil” to put someone in prison for the rest of their live

Yes, and unequivocally. I do.

and “merciful and enlightened” to just go ahead and put them to death.

Yes, unequivocally and it's also safer and better for the victims and it is a 100% guarantee that that criminal will not commit any future crimes.
As it stands:
You have (and thanks for doing so) paid me over $65.00 an hour (for countless hours) to sit in a hospital staring at an 80-year old man chained by his feet and wrists to a bed in a rehab hospital for countless months on end.

You waste hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay us to chain invalids to a rehab hospital bed and we only know he's dead because we smell him evacuate his bowels after months of laying their chained like a dog.
It is inhumane it's sickening to watch and it is a wast of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

This is all done to make Canady feel good about himself,

I suspect the people being put to death would not agree.

The people being put to death are rapists and murderers.
I do not take their side on this issue:
By definition: You now do.

I will disagree with you.

The people who rape 8-year olds also disagree, and are on your side of this issue.
I am not.

BTW, I didn’t say torture people for 100 years of their 800 year sentence.

Yes, you did:
But, you did say deny them the assumed 3 basic meals a day:
This implies that:

It is the job of the prison system to make sure that their lives are appreciably more difficult than they otherwise would be.

Prisons CANNOT do that!
That endangers the staff, it endangers other inmates. it endangers everyone involved.
When you lock someone up for 300 years: what prison staff now have to do is LIVE WITH THEM for the next 300 years.

You want to have your cake and eat it too.

You are not standing up for humane treatment of prisoners...
You are standing up for spending hundreds of thousands of dollars of rehab hospital staff, and of me and other prison staff, being paid absurd amounts of money to chain an 80-year-old man to bed for months or even years.

That makes me sick to my stomach.

I'm glad you feel good about yourself. Lefty liberals get the same cathartic feeling when they deny reality.

 

[canadyjd]

Yes, and unequivocally. I do.

Yes, unequivocally and it's also safer and better for the victims and it is a 100% guarantee that that criminal will not commit any future crimes.
As it stands:
You have (and thanks for doing so) paid me over $65.00 an hour (for countless hours) to sit in a hospital staring at an 80-year old man chained by his feet and wrists to a bed in a rehab hospital for countless months on end.

You waste hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay us to chain invalids to a rehab hospital bed and we only know he's dead because we smell him evacuate his bowels after months of laying their chained like a dog.
It is inhumane it's sickening to watch and it is a wast of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

This is all done to make Canady feel good about himself,

The people being put to death are rapists and murderers.
I do not take their side on this issue:
By definition: You now do.

The people who rape 8-year olds also disagree, and are on your side of this issue.
I am not.

Yes, you did:
But, you did say deny them the assumed 3 basic meals a day:
This implies that:

It is the job of the prison system to make sure that their lives are appreciably more difficult than they otherwise would be.

Prisons CANNOT do that!
That endangers the staff, it endangers other inmates. it endangers everyone involved.
When you lock someone up for 300 years: what prison staff now have to do is LIVE WITH THEM for the next 300 years.

You want to have your cake and eat it too.

You are not standing up for humane treatment of prisoners...
You are standing up for spending hundreds of thousands of dollars of rehab hospital staff, and of me and other prison staff, being paid absurd amounts of money to chain an 80-year-old man to bed for months or even years.

That makes me sick to my stomach.

I'm glad you feel good about yourself. Lefty liberals get the same cathartic feeling when they deny reality.

If you really believed the things you are saying you would do the morally responsible thing and resign your position and find other work. Instead, you gladly accept that $65 an hour to watch that 80 year old dead man chained to a hospital bed.

Instead, you continue in a job that you believe to be morally unsuitable just so you can earn that great big retirement from the taxpayers.

And then you claim to be merciful and enlightened.

That sick feeling you get in your stomach could be you are realizing the hypocrisy of your life.

peace to you

 

[HeirofSalvation]

If you really believed the things you are saying

I absolutely believe them unapologetically and 100%.

you would do the morally responsible thing and resign your position and find other work

No, that would be stupid:
The only thing agreed upon, is that there are persons who should never join polite society again for one of two reasons:
1.) The nature of their crimes is such that "justice" simply insists that they are given a sentence so long that they will die before they complete it.
or:
2.) Due to the nature of their crimes and how much we distrust this individual, we cannot ever let them into polite society ever again because we will never trust them

Instead, you gladly accept that $65 an hour to watch that 80 year old dead man chained to a hospital bed.

I don't do it "gladly"...I only due it when I am "mandated" (that means there isn't enough staff to cover it voluntarily).
There usually isn't, because prison staff are so hard to find.

Also, wasn't the argument I was making was that I SHOULDN'T be doing it at all, if you would have executed him like I'm suggesting you do?

Who knows, that takes a moment of consideration and thought, and that is illegal on Baptist Board...

You REALLY don't know anything about prisons and prison systems do you???
That wasn't a question...
I know you don't.

I don't do it "gladly".....I hate it.
It makes me want to throw up in my mouth.
It makes me know that the only reason the monster I am staring at wasn't humanely executed 30 years ago is because Canady wanted to feel good about himself.

Instead, you continue in a job that you believe to be morally unsuitable

No, genius.
I continue in the job because:
I do agree that there are monsters who should never return to society again.
There will always be some (not subject to a death penalty) who we will imprison for a length of time.
The ones who are given "life" sentences which I know you should have given a death penalty to, still should never enter polite society again, and our only recourse is to do as we do. (Even though I know there is a better way to do this).
You want them removed from polite society forever, and so do I.
You think it's better to cage them like an animal:
I think it is inhumane and better to execute them with dignity.

just so you can earn that great big retirement from the taxpayers.

I laugh myself all the way to the bank...trust me.
Do you think that I wouldn't have a job if we instituted the death penalty for baby-rapists???????
There's a million more where they come from.
Trust me:
The prison industry is growing...and there's always plenty more: Ones I don't think need to be executed. Drug-dealers are a dime-a-dozen, and someon'es always robbing a bank.
I'll have a job either way.
I'd rather be an electrician (which I already am) in a society which also executes men who rape 6-year-olds.
You want me to warehouse child-rapists forever:
Honestly......It makes it harder for the prison system because the inmates who do not rape children hate them, and we have to house them differently....

Otherwise:
The OTHER LIFERS WILL KILL THEM!!!

The other "lifers" do not and WILL NOT live with child-molesters:
They will kill them:

I am in the unfortunate position of having to protect said child-rapist from other inmates:
Because:
If a child-rapist is hurt or killed by another inmate (they will be) an enlightened do-gooder-liberal like you is going to ask why we couldn't protect that inmate from another inmate...
Alternatively:
That child-rapist inmate (or his family) has a lawsuit against us or the Bureau of Prisons or the respective State Prison system where the event happened, and that is more money out of the taxpayer pocket....

And then you claim to be merciful and enlightened.

I don't know.
Maybe I am, or maybe I am not.
But, I have demonstrated the problems, and you cannot, and do not comprehend them.
Compared to you: I am a subject-matter expert.
You add nothing of expertise to the discussion and little in terms of solutions or redress of the quite legitimate problems I am telling you you have.

I am telling you, we have a broken system:
YOU DO NOT SEE IT.
That is because I do my job:

What I do for a living, is work at the societal dump: I take your garbage, and hide it from you...
Do you think I'm living high on a hog?
The average life-span for a correctional officer is 57 years.

They literally LIVE in the most emotionally and psychologically toxic environment in this country, and they are treated like fecal matter by people like you for doing so.

I take the CRAP that you don't want to deal with, and hide it forever so that you NEVER have to face reality.

You live the delusion you do, because of me.
Everyone loves a cop...
Cops carry lethal weapons every day to deal with mostly law-abiding citizens:

Correctional staff never carry lethal weapons to daily take care of ONLY felons all day, every day...
They never have long retirements and statistically die at 57.

57!

Are you SERIOUSLY acting like I'm some crook leeching off the dole????

How old are you?
How much social security have you withdrawn?
How long do you expect to live?
How many years to you expect to live in retirement?

Do you know why correctional staff die at 57 on average?

Because we're a lot like cops, (many are former cops) except even the society we're protecting hates us, and treats us like monsters.

We aren't monsters....we're taking society's monsters...and they are now "out of sight, out of mind".
We do that all day, every day, and you never hear about it, unless one of those monsters escape.
And they practically NEVER do escape, because we do our job VERY VERY well.

I guess I got off on a tangent: I'm not personally offended by your very intentional personal insult:
I want to defend my fellow correctional workers who could do better than to deal with the abuse you are hurling at them.

Your insult to correctional officers and other staff disgusts me.
I don't care what you think of me:
They don't deserve the un-Christlike treatment or attitude you display to those who take society's left-over garbage, and then live the next 60-80 years with it.

You treat them with contempt. That is reprehensible.

 

[canadyjd]

I absolutely believe them unapologetically and 100%.

No, that would be stupid:
The only thing agreed upon, is that there are persons who should never join polite society again for one of two reasons:
1.) The nature of their crimes is such that "justice" simply insists that they are given a sentence so long that they will die before they complete it.
or:
2.) Due to the nature of their crimes and how much we distrust this individual, we cannot ever let them into polite society ever again because we will never trust them

I don't do it "gladly"...I only due it when I am "mandated" (that means there isn't enough staff to cover it voluntarily).
There usually isn't, because prison staff are so hard to find.

You REALLY don't know anything about prisons and prison systems do you???
That wasn't a question...
I know you don't.

I don't do it "gladly".....I hate it.
It makes me want to throw up in my mouth.
It makes me know that the only reason the monster I am staring at wasn't humanely executed 30 years ago is because Canady wanted to feel good about himself.


No, genius.
I continue in the job because:
I do agree that there are monsters who should never return to society again.
There will always be some (not subject to a death penalty) who we will imprison for a length of time.
The ones who are given "life" sentences which I know you should have given a death penalty to, still should never enter polite society again, and our only recourse is to do as we do. (Even though I know there is a better way to do this).
You want them removed from polite society forever, and so do I.
You think it's better to cage them like an animal:
I think it is inhumane and better to execute them with dignity.

I laugh myself all the way to the bank...trust me.
Do you think that I wouldn't have a job if we instituted the death penalty for baby-rapists???????
There's a million more where they come from.
Trust me:
The prison industry is growing...and there's always plenty more: Ones I don't think need to be executed. Drug-dealers are a dime-a-dozen, and someon'es always robbing a bank.
I'll have a job either way.
I'd rather be an electrician (which I already am) in a society which also executes men who rape 6-year-olds.
You want me to warehouse child-rapists forever:
Honestly......It makes it harder for the prison system because the inmates who do not rape children hate them, and we have to house them differently....

Otherwise:
The OTHER LIFERS WILL KILL THEM!!!

The other "lifers" do not and WILL NOT live with child-molesters:
They will kill them:

I am in the unfortunate position of having to protect said child-rapist from other inmates:
Because:
If a child-rapist is hurt or killed by another inmate (they will be) an enlightened do-gooder-liberal like you is going to ask why we couldn't protect that inmate from another inmate...
Alternatively:
That child-rapist inmate (or his family) has a lawsuit against us or the Bureau of Prisons or the respective State Prison system where the event happened, and that is more money out of the taxpayer pocket....

I don't know.
Maybe I am, or maybe I am not.
But, I have demonstrated the problems, and you cannot, and do not comprehend them.
Compared to you: I am a subject-matter expert.
You add nothing of expertise to the discussion and little in terms of solutions or redress of the quite legitimate problems I am telling you you have.

I am telling you, we have a broken system:
YOU DO NOT SEE IT.
That is because I do my job:

What I do for a living, is work at the societal dump: I take your garbage, and hide it from you...
Do you think I'm living high on a hog?
The average life-span for a correctional officer is 57 years.

They literally LIVE in the most emotionally and psychologically toxic environment in this country, and they are treated like fecal matter by people like you for doing so.

I take the CRAP that you don't want to deal with, and hide it forever so that you NEVER have to face reality.

You live the delusion you do, because of me.
Everyone loves a cop...
Cops carry lethal weapons every day to deal with mostly law-abiding citizens:

Correctional staff never carry lethal weapons to daily take care of ONLY felons all day, every day...
They never have long retirements and statistically die at 57.

57!

Are you SERIOUSLY acting like I'm some crook leeching off the dole????

How old are you?
How much social security have you withdrawn?
How long do you expect to live?
How many years to you expect to live in retirement?

Do you know why correctional staff die at 57 on average?

Because we're a lot like cops, (many are former cops) except even the society we're protecting hates us, and treats us like monsters.

We aren't monsters....we're taking society's monsters...and they are now "out of sight, out of mind".
We do that all day, every day, and you never hear about it, unless one of those monsters escape.
And they practically NEVER do escape, because we do our job VERY VERY well.

I guess I got off on a tangent: I'm not personally offended by your very intentional personal insult:
I want to defend my fellow correctional workers who could do better than to deal with the abuse you are hurling at them.

Your insult to correctional officers and other staff disgusts me.
I don't care what you think of me:
They don't deserve the un-Christlike treatment or attitude you display to those who take society's left-over garbage, and then live the next 60-80 years with it.

You treat them with contempt. That is reprehensible.

I work with several retired federal prison officers. One is 75. One is 68. One is 63. The rest are in their 50’s. I’m very happy they have beaten the average life expectancy of corrections officials.

I have not treated anyone with contempt, not even you after your endless false accusations of what I supposedly said and believe.

I have only pointed out your hypocrisy…

1. You claim I just want to “feel good” about myself in opposing the death penalty and in the same breath declare yourself to be “merciful” and “enlightened” by supporting the death penalty…. And….

2. You complain bitterly about your job and how it is a big waste of taxpayer dollars and in the same breath boast about making $65 an hour to watch a dead man chained to a hospital bed.

3. You claim not to be staying in the job for the retirement, even though you believe it to be morally unsuitable for anyone to do, much less for a Christian. And beyond that, you claim to be an electrician.

Certainly and electrician could earn an equal salary to a prison guard.

So, you are choosing to remain a prison guard, even though you hate the work and are continuously getting sick to your stomach and vomiting all over every thing at the thought someone doesn’t support the death penalty.

No wonder so many prison guards die at 57. Let it go, man. Be an electrician and let the madness go!!!

For your own mental health do something else. Based on the way you have ranted in these posts you need to seek immediate counseling and get a new job. Just let it go!!!!!

peace to you

 

[HeirofSalvation]

All else being equal:

As a Floridian (who loves my governor)
We believe anyone who rapes a child should die.

You can do whatever you want in whatever evil State you live in that I don't care about...
But, in my State: I love what my Governor passed into law.