Ludicrious response, Paul spoke to them as if they had no Spirit or had not yet learned from the Spirit.
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Flaws found in NIV
- Thread starter Van
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He spoke to them "as to men of flesh." Therefore "men of flesh" can understand spiritual milk.
Note how this obvious truth is denied none stop with deflection.
"men of flesh" does not mean that the people were unsaved.
They were redeemed folks who had not grown in Christ, baby believers, stunted, and ignorant.
That you attempt to portray them as unsaved is not accurate.
It is absurd that you do not recognize this truth.
Only the redeemed receive both the milk and meet. Not the unsaved.
The unsaved receive NOTHING of the spirit is the teaching of the Scriptures.
For you to deny that is absurd.
I am using your own word (absurd) because you have the audacity to bring doubt upon the veracity of others who are making attempts to correct your presentation. The obstinate rejection of what they are attempting to bring you to an understanding is just absurd.
At least that is what you are claiming the reading of others presents, are you not?
Just another "taint so" post, denying the obvious. If I ate "the things" of the buffet counter, did I eat some of them, or all the food? Some of the things. To restate the obvious, your bogus doctrine rests on claiming an ambiguous verse means something contextually untenable. Fallen people can understand the spiritual milk things of the Spirit, but not the spiritual meat.
Men of flesh refers to people without the Spirit, babes in Christ refers to people with the Spirit that have not yet learned anything from the Sp;irit, thus both are able to understand spiritual milk but not spiritual solid food (meat).
Nonsense. Both groups are indicated as being able to understand spiritual milk.
3 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
The truth is easy to grasp, and is stated plainly. The denial is mind boggling.
Paul is speaking to the same group - the brethren. The brethren are men who are believers. No unbeliever is ever in Scriptures called a brethren.
The brethren could not be spoken to as spiritual, but as men of the flesh who were infants in Christ. He gave them milk as infants not yet weaned and not solid food which they could not digest (understand), and the same condition continued even to the time of his writing the letter.
How unfortunate it is that you cling to that which is inaccurate, for it forces you into that very statement in which you would attribute to others.
"Just another "taint so" post, denying the obvious. If I ate "the things" of the buffet counter, did I eat some of them, or all the food? Some of the things. To restate the obvious, your bogus doctrine rests on claiming an ambiguous verse means something contextually untenable." (quoted Van post # 127)
Van, taking your statement with modification, the fallen people cannot understand the spiritual milk things of the Spirit. Paul states makes that clear.
You don't like that statement, because it doesn't fit your view. But that does not make the statement need your manipulation in which when left without does not give your view validity.
Your's is the "bogus doctrine that rests on claiming an ambiguous verse means something contextually untenable."
You of course will deny such, for that is the hold error shackles one.
Yet another "taint so" post. Is the issue that Paul was addressing brethren? Nope, so a bunny trail.
Paul is speaking to fellow believers, that were still babes in Christ, unable to receive spiritual solid food (meat). But as Paul was explaining his communication, he indicated he was speaking to them as to men of flesh, referring to non-spiritual ones or people without the Spirit. Thus both people without the Spirit and people who had yet to learn from the Spirit can understand spiritual milk.
Flaws found in the NIV (Update #6)
1) Isaiah 12:3 the omission of the conjunction should read, "therefore" *
2) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read, "moved with anger." *
3) John 1:16 should read: For out of His fullness of grace, we all accepted, and grace became more grace.
4) John 21:5 friends should read, "children."
5) Acts 13:50 "leaders" should be italicized to indicate an addition to the text.
6) Romans 3:25 sacrifice of atonement should read, "propitiatory shelter."*
7) 1 Corinthians 16:13 "be courageous" should read, "act like men."
8) Ephesians 2:3 deserving of wrath should read, "children of wrath."
9) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person.*
10) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 to be saved should read, "for salvation."
11) 2 Thessalonians 3:6 who is idle should read, "who leads an undisciplined life" *
12) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read, "revealed in the flesh."*
13) Titus 3:4 love should read, "love for mankind." *
14) Hebrews 10:14 sacrifice should read, "offering."
15) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read, "yet rich in faith."
16) 1 Peter 4:6 those who are now dead should read, "those who are dead."
17) 1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation." *
18) 1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation."
19) Revelation 13:8; 17:8 from the creation should read, "since the foundation." And Matthew 25:34 and Hebrews 4:3 since the creation should read "since the foundation."
20) Revelation 22:21 be with God's people should read, "be with all."
21) 1 Samuel 15:19 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
22) 1 Samuel 15:20 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
23) 1 Samuel 15:22 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
24) Philemon 1:6 the verse should read as follows: "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to all of you in Christ Jesus."
25) 1 Corinthians 14:29 should read "Let two or three prophets speak, and the others evaluate." The NIV added "carefully" and "what is said."
26) 1 Corinthians 6:19 "your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you" should read "your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in all of you.
27) Matthew 3:11 should read, ""As for me, I baptize all of you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize some of you with the Holy Spirit and others with fire.
28) Matthew 11:12 should read, ""Since the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens has been forcefully sought, and forceful people are laying hold of it."
29) 1 Corinthians 2:14 does not say all things that come from the Spirit, therefore the verse should read: The person without the Spirit does not accept some of the things of the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit,
30) Titus 2:11 "Offer" has been added which alters the message, the verse should read: For the grace of God, who provides salvation, has appeared to all people.
31) 1 Corinthians 3:1: Siblings I could not speak to you as people with the Spirit, but as to people without the Spirit, as babes in Christ who have yet to learn from the Spirit.
32) Acts of the Apostles 13:48: When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord and as many as accepted direction to eternal life believed.
Examples 1, 9, 13, 21, 22, and 23 document omission of words or parts of words.
Examples 5, 15, 16, 25, 29 and 30 document addition of words.
Examples 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 26 document replacement of the inspired word with a different word or different words.
Example 24 and 28 documents a translation devoid of meaning, just an array of disconnected phrases.
Example 27 clarifies the confusion produced by the Greek plural "you."
Examples 31 and 32 present an unambiguous correction to the NIV translations.
When translators "add" words or phrases, "omit" words or phrases, or translate words or phrases outside of the historical-grammatical meaning unnecessarily, in order to make doctrine driven choices, they are presenting a flawed translation in my opinion. All translations have flaws, the product of fallible people, but the NIV flaws seem abundant to me.
1) Isaiah 12:3 the omission of the conjunction should read, "therefore" *
2) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read, "moved with anger." *
3) John 1:16 should read: For out of His fullness of grace, we all accepted, and grace became more grace.
4) John 21:5 friends should read, "children."
5) Acts 13:50 "leaders" should be italicized to indicate an addition to the text.
6) Romans 3:25 sacrifice of atonement should read, "propitiatory shelter."*
7) 1 Corinthians 16:13 "be courageous" should read, "act like men."
8) Ephesians 2:3 deserving of wrath should read, "children of wrath."
9) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person.*
10) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 to be saved should read, "for salvation."
11) 2 Thessalonians 3:6 who is idle should read, "who leads an undisciplined life" *
12) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read, "revealed in the flesh."*
13) Titus 3:4 love should read, "love for mankind." *
14) Hebrews 10:14 sacrifice should read, "offering."
15) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read, "yet rich in faith."
16) 1 Peter 4:6 those who are now dead should read, "those who are dead."
17) 1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation." *
18) 1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation."
19) Revelation 13:8; 17:8 from the creation should read, "since the foundation." And Matthew 25:34 and Hebrews 4:3 since the creation should read "since the foundation."
20) Revelation 22:21 be with God's people should read, "be with all."
21) 1 Samuel 15:19 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
22) 1 Samuel 15:20 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
23) 1 Samuel 15:22 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord." *
24) Philemon 1:6 the verse should read as follows: "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to all of you in Christ Jesus."
25) 1 Corinthians 14:29 should read "Let two or three prophets speak, and the others evaluate." The NIV added "carefully" and "what is said."
26) 1 Corinthians 6:19 "your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you" should read "your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in all of you.
27) Matthew 3:11 should read, ""As for me, I baptize all of you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize some of you with the Holy Spirit and others with fire.
28) Matthew 11:12 should read, ""Since the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens has been forcefully sought, and forceful people are laying hold of it."
29) 1 Corinthians 2:14 does not say all things that come from the Spirit, therefore the verse should read: The person without the Spirit does not accept some of the things of the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit,
30) Titus 2:11 "Offer" has been added which alters the message, the verse should read: For the grace of God, who provides salvation, has appeared to all people.
31) 1 Corinthians 3:1: Siblings I could not speak to you as people with the Spirit, but as to people without the Spirit, as babes in Christ who have yet to learn from the Spirit.
32) Acts of the Apostles 13:48: When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord and as many as accepted direction to eternal life believed.
Examples 1, 9, 13, 21, 22, and 23 document omission of words or parts of words.
Examples 5, 15, 16, 25, 29 and 30 document addition of words.
Examples 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 26 document replacement of the inspired word with a different word or different words.
Example 24 and 28 documents a translation devoid of meaning, just an array of disconnected phrases.
Example 27 clarifies the confusion produced by the Greek plural "you."
Examples 31 and 32 present an unambiguous correction to the NIV translations.
When translators "add" words or phrases, "omit" words or phrases, or translate words or phrases outside of the historical-grammatical meaning unnecessarily, in order to make doctrine driven choices, they are presenting a flawed translation in my opinion. All translations have flaws, the product of fallible people, but the NIV flaws seem abundant to me.
Well you started good, but ran off the rails.
You are correct that "Paul is speaking to fellow believers, that were still babes in Christ unable to receive spiritual solid food (meat).
What Paul was not doing was either addressing the m as unbelievers, nor ones "non-spiritual or without the Spirit."
Such a description is completely false - as YOU admit by stating "Paul is speaking to fellow believers."
People without the Spirit are not saved. They have no ability to receive that which is of the Spirit.
IF you contend that the believers have yet to "learn from the spirit" that may certainly be true from the standpoint that the new born baby has yet to learn, but only responds to body urges.
IF you contend that the unsaved have the ability to receive anything prior to the Holy Spirit bringing them belief, then you are in violation of the Scriptures.
Yet another "taint so" post, Mignon the "as to men of flesh" phrase. Paul is speaking to fellow believers, that were still babes in Christ, unable to receive spiritual solid food (meat). But as Paul was explaining his communication, he indicated he was speaking to them as to men of flesh, referring to non-spiritual ones or people without the Spirit. Thus both people without the Spirit and people who had yet to learn from the Spirit can understand spiritual milk.
Yet another "taint so" post, Van.
There is nothing in the original nor in the available translations that gives you such liberties with the written Word. You are obstinately clinging to what is error.
At NO time was Paul even considering the unsaved, but those saved yet still living after the flesh, as according to the desires and will of the flesh, as immature.
First you disparage my behavior, then you mischaracterize my view.
Men of flesh can understand the fundamentals of the gospel, the spiritual milk things of the Spirit. 1 Corinthians3:1-2
I do trivialize your view, and as you present the characterization of views you do not accept, I have been using your own terms toward your view, turning your own words toward you. Is this wrong? Can you express attributes for others and not have them returned?
How have I mischaracterized your view(s)?
Specific to 1 Corinthians, Are you not inserting into the statement of Paul your application to the unsaved rather than just to the immature redeemed who need to grow?
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