FLDS Texas Ranch

Thank you for saying, and very well what was my concern.

Only recently have I become aware of the Jessup book: I wish I had the money and the time to purchase every 'good book' that comes out and informs... Alas!

However, I heard a counselor speak who had talked with some who have left the community of FLDS, of which this is just one and most notably obvious by its 'compound', but her info came from others who had left other communities of FLDS :

It is appalling how the mind control over their children begins during infancy: When a child cries, that child is immersed in water to make it stop crying... and removed just in time to prevent drowning: This creates such a position of control over the child at such an early age, associating 'disobediance' (which it hardly can yet understand) with mortal fear of death. By the time the child is old enough to respond to directions and commands and instructions, he is totally compliant: He has been 'programmed' to accept without question: His understanding of right and wrong are totally dependant on that which he has been taught and 'the will' has been altered so that he neither thinks and questions for himself, nor does he challenge authorities which he's been taught to recognize.

Sadly, I see these mothers...especially the young mother's as having also been programmed. A woman who is complicit in her child's abuse by 'authority', who is also abused and controlled, may, in all other aspects be a very good mother: What makes her a 'bad' mother is that she has been programmed not to recognize the abuse and protect her child from its occurrance: Neither does she likely possess the knowledge or the skills to protect herself and resist.

Sadly, while these children have been 'clostiered' in a surreal world, where they were subjected to abuse and programing, this same surreal world has protected them from other evil interest and influences on the outside: Nothing can restore to them the childhood free of abuse and programming and nothing can prevent them from exposure of what innocence they have to the evils within the world in which they must learn to live. Hopefully the care they find themselves in will not take advantage of their compliance: Predators and pedophiles exist everywhere in all institutions and agencies:

We had a notable attorney general....who flew to meet a mother offering a 5 y/o daughter....He did the courts a favor and hung himself. The local papers flash briefs news regarding cps 'loosing' children: agents and foster care parents indicted due to child abuse and sexual crimes. One family I knew back in the 80's had 15 girls, 3 were their own...the rest were foster kids. It was the late 90's the 'father' was discovered to be molesting the girls: the statue of limitations had run out on many but he was convicted and is now serving. Abuses within the system are seldom national news: local news carries it basically to satisfy the local rumours and leaks when an abused makes a report and an investigation is begun.

 

Thank you squire

 

Thought you might want to read up on some of the ongoing concerns here in my backyard affecting us all on both sides of the border. Some interesting articles on this whole thing from a Canadian perspective. Also, check out the sidebar link? to Laurie Allen, former FLDS member.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080502.polygamy031/BNStory/National/

 

In order for an 18 yr old to have 3 children she was first pregnant before age 16. There have been some here who did not believe girls younger then 16 were marrying or having babies. But I guess they have been.

If their own lawyer doesn't know about her she must not be identifying herself as canadian.

Old men passing around teen girls for the purpose of sex.


And this is where people think they should have been left unbothered, left to themselves.

 

So what's your point DonnA? That somehow you have this divine knowledge that the rest of us don't? Sister, NOBODY (far as I can tell anyway) is saying that this situation is not morally repulsive. I certainly have made my feelings clear and so have others in their posts, BUT, what I and others ARE SAYING, IN ADDITION, is that authorities better darn well have dotted their i's and crossed their t's OR the judge/courts ACCORDING TO THE LAWS IN THE GOOD OLD USA (& surprise, surprise, other democratic countries including Canada), will have no choice but to return these mothers/children to the 'keep sweet' YFZ ranch.

Our emotions (feelings) aren't what count here, sister. What counts is that we have FACTS IN A COURT OF LAW to hang these guys, figuratively, if not literally. It's what you and I pay our elected officials to do in a democratic country. Whether you like it or not, those same democratic rules apply to women and children (& men) of a fundamentalist sect as apply to you. If you or I take away those rights, then you and I had better be first in line to forgo our rights. Will that make you happy DonnA?? I don't think so. Want to know why? Because it's not going to make me happy to forgo my rights and I'm d** sure from the sounds of it, you don't want anyone trampling on yours.

 

doublepost

 

Arent you in Canada?

 

queenbee=

What are you talking about? What claim have I made to devine knowledge? I quoted a news report. What divine knowledge does it take to quote the news?

It has been stated on this board that these people whould have been left alone to pratice their religion, comparing it to, and calling it religeous persecution. s if they have the right to sexually molest little girls.

Whether I like it or not?? Yes I like the fact child molestation is illegal and the authorities will actually do something about it.

You don't pay our elected officals, your in canada.

 

Have you been reading the news? There's a well-known polygamist community here in BC that's been 'feeding' celestial wives to Utah, Arizona, Texas for years.

I'm not supposed to comment? This doesn't apply to me or anyone else in BC?
So what's your point? That somehow this doesn't affect people in Canada? Please, educate yourself!

 

NO - you're right. I don't pay your officials - YOU DO and YOU obviously have missed the point

 

Exactly. What happens on this side of the border and as far down as Texas has no bearing on you.

 

No, No, No, RevM. If you're going to quote me, make sure you include my full statement, not just parts that fit your narrow viewpoint. Here was my comment.... "Have you been reading the news? There's a well-known polygamist community here in BC that's been 'feeding' celestial wives to Utah, Arizona, Texas for years.

I'm not supposed to comment? This doesn't apply to me or anyone else in BC?
So what's your point? That somehow this doesn't affect people in Canada? Please, educate yourself!

If you had as wordly a view as you think you do, you'd know that this whole situation is being closely monitored by authorities here in BC so that they (our authorities) can take appropriate action and have an open and shut case. But of course, I and the millions of others in BC, don't have anything to say about this do we RevM, because as we all know - you have pronounced that none of this has any bearing on us.

 

I quoted the only portion that mattered. And it all depends on wha tyou mean by "say". If by that you shoul have some input as to what we should do then no you do not have any say. But if by say you can give an opinion then go right ahead.

Why you all need to wait on us to take action is unclear we have differnt constitutions and our sovereignties are not bearing on one another. You should go ahead and take care of your own business.

 

My POINT was that you claimed to pay my elected officals, yet your in canada.
So what has your goverment done about your people breding girls to be sent off to have sex with old men?
I don't know whats wrong with you, you do this samething all over the board, and carry your hatred from thread to thread.

 

Then wheres your comment on canada? Your comments have so far been on the US.

 

I never made any such claim about paying YOUR elected officials. I was talking about how this situation impacts both our countries and both our elected officials, so we both jointly share the same issues hoping our elected officials have done their legal homework. At least I hope you feel that way.

I'm not privy to what my gov't has been doing with these young girls 'sent off to have sex with old men'. I suspect that is why my govt is keeping a very close watch on these whole proceedings both in Texas and here at home, so that they can move on it when its time.

I don't know what's wrong with you that you take offense with someone else's opinion DonnA.

I do this same thing all over the board??? I carry my hatred from thread to thread??? to quote you. ​

Because I give an opinion which you don't like or feel differently about or are uncomfortable with? That's a pretty wide brush you tar and feather people with DonnA. I think I've been complimentary to quite a few people and empathetic and compassionate to others here on this BB and yes, stuck up for myself when under attack. I believe I've also done a few apologies. I do feel strongly about a lot of issues and this is one. I'm assuming from reading your comments that you feel strongly about all this too. Good! but please notice that I am not accusing you of carrying your hatred from thread to thread all over this board simply because you feel passionately about this issue or you have a difference of opinion on other issues than I do. Please leave off personally attacking me.

 

Quote=donnA #12 post
Well, you at least didn't support their 'right' to sexually abuse young girls, making them live in fake marriages.
windcatcher Ans:
I NEVER supported 'right' to sexually abuse. I don't support 'fake' marriages... but there are some who believe that marriage is ordained by God, and the state trivializes the covenant replacing it with a 'contract', the state trivializes the authority of God, by claiming the right to give 'permission', and a marriage license has the effect of acknowledging the authority and 'ownership' of the state over the home. I'm now widowed, but my marriage was 'licensed' and I have no problem with that.... but I am mindful that there are some that can present very good and relevant discussion to the concept of state vs God's authority from a Biblical point of view... not a cult position.

Quote=Queenbee #4 Post
It is sad, but better to be safe than sorry or the community at large, continuing in the complicity. [IOW, she is agreeing that this needed to be stopped] We have the same situation up here in Bountiful, BC. In fact, it's believed that some of the children rounded up in Texas are originally from Canada. Government authorities here in BC are keeping a close eye on this whole situation in Texas and may finally close in on the polygamist community in Bountiful to take further action as well.

Quote= queenbee post #44
from link;

windcatcher
For those of you who either don't read the whole thread or want to pick an arguement with a poster; qb established her own interest and the potential connection between the Canadian investigation and the Texas investigation.

Ed Edwards post #18
Here newbie, let me help you. DonnA is the board social checker. If one can not get along with DonnA, one does not belong on this board. DonnA is the board sanity checker. If one can not get along with DonnA, one does not get listened unto.

windcatcher
Sounds like you both agree on the same 'high ground'. Pity!

quote= donnA post #45
In order for an 18 yr old to have 3 children she was first pregnant before age 16. There have been some here who did not believe girls younger then 16 were marrying or having babies. But I guess they have been.

windcatcher
There may be some here who recognize that it was a recent change in Texas law from the minimal age of 14 for marriage..... as recent as 2003, or was it 2005? (I think it was 2005.) Acknowledging that law change is not a poster's agreement that 14 yr should be married. If you know any thing of 'grandfathering' in law, then a lawful offense today doesn't mean a chargable offense for a commission of an act before it became illegal. It limits future crime but doesn't reverse those 'crimes' which were not 'crimes' in the definition of the law at the time they were committed. (FYI and understanding, the subject of this paragraph is legal age NOT polygamist marriage.)

quote= queenbee post #46
What counts is that we have FACTS IN A COURT OF LAW to hang these guys, figuratively, if not literally. It's what you and I pay our elected officials to do in a democratic country.

windcatcher
This meets multiple challenges by other posters: Aren't Canada and the USA both democracies? Don't people in both countries pay taxes which help to support law and its enforcement? If there is an investigation ongoing here.... which success or failure or discovery may have implications for Canada's enforcement of the same, are the posters on the BB really so lacking as to understand the concern which is raised...... or is it just the intent of some poster's to needle and attack other posters? If this discussion is persisting for this purpose then the OP has lost its relevance..... imo.

quote donnA post #55
My POINT was that [1]you claimed to pay my elected officals, yet your in canada.
So what has your goverment done about your people breding girls to be sent off to have sex with old men?
[2]I don't know whats wrong with you, [3]you do this samething all over the board, and[4] carry your hatred from thread to thread.
windcatcher
speaking only for myself, I don't hate you but I don't like you: The reasons are clearly answered here [1] you lie and twist [2]you belittle [3]you generalize when you feel strongly and YOU DISAGREE with the way they present their opinion then YOU generalize that ALL their post are as you say, iow, you're personally oppositional [4] a projection of your own heart, perhaps?


I'd like to see a return to the OP. But the problems presented in this thread appear to be without notice or restraint... and for me, any way, is upsetting to see on a forum.
(to EdSutton's post #28

which was answering to this poster's 'rain check' refusal of suggested 'hospitality' evident in this thread: Are you really suggesting 'suicide' or was this a sick attempt at humor? )

 

For some reason I came in here thinking we were getting more news on the topic of this thread.

Sounds like your goverment doesn't know what to do about girls being sexually abused so they're waiting for us to tell them.
What is the law there in canada about sexual abuse, at what age can a girl legally marry. If we knew more about the law there concerning this type of thing maybe we could understand better whats going on onthe canadian end of this.

 

I never said YOU did.
Marriage is ordained by God. But forcing young girls to live with old men for the purpose of sex and reproduction, then switching them out with another old man is not a marriage ordained by God.
Not to mention, in this country you can not legally have more then one real marriage, that makes every marriage after the first one a fake marriage. The bible does not give us the right to multiply marriages.

If an 18 yr old has multiple children she was sexually abused before age 16, which would have been before 2003 or 2005. There are girls there younger then 16 who are preganat according to some of the articles, and that is currently illegal, it's called statory rape. And since these are not real marriages, this doesn't even touch the subject. Nw if one of these young girls is the first wife, then it would apply.
They themselves know these are not real marriages, and acknowledge it as those 2nd, 3rd. etc wives once they produce children go on welfare, as unwed mothers. By going on welfare they themselves claim the title unwed mother.

which doesn't bother me in the least, the feeling is mutual, so whats new.