"Follow me..."

[preacher4truth]

Then evangelism is a waste of time,

Not to Paul who knew those who would be reached with the Gospel -- 2 Timothy 2:8-9

Strike one for you.

the passages in the Bible that urge the sinner to seek God are lies, and preaching the gospel to the lost is useless.

Then so was giving the Law by your logic. And God is no liar, even if you don't understand His ways. We preach the Gospel because we are commanded to do so -- the elect being saved is the result.

That's strike two for you.

Your assertions are hyper-Calvinist pap.

Strike 3 happens on nothing less than name calling.

 

[Tom Butler]

A couple of thoughts, if I may.

The problem with invitations and altar calls is not their use, but their potential for misuse and abuse. I've seen all kinds of manipulative tactics during invitations; anything to get a response.

That said, I acknowledge that it was during an invitation that the Holy Spirit convicted me of my sin and drew me to repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus. The Lord saved me before I ever took that first step down the aisle (else I would not have taken that first step).

Jesus himself said in Matthew 10:32 "Whoever confesses me before men, him I will acknowledge before my Father in heaven."

The fact is, Jesus demanded a public confession of faith. In front of other people. Now, we're arguing over the mechanics of doing that. I can see nothing wrong with one (prompted by the Holy Spirit) stepping out into the aisle, waking down to where the preacher is, and telling him he'd like to publicly confess his faith in Christ.

In Acts 2, while Peter was preaching on the Day of Pentecost, his listeners came under such conviction that they interrupted his sermon, and asked "What shall we do?" Peter's response was "repent." A bunch did.

In Acts 17, Paul was taken up Mars Hill by the Athenian philosophers to hear more of this strange stuff he was preaching. He preached Christ, His resurrection and His judgment. And his invitation? "God commands all men everywhere to repent."

The response? Most blew him off, but some believed. Notice the command: Repent. Notice the response: Some believed.

Of course, in neither incident do we have anything resembling the modern invitation. But the argument is mainly over mechanics not specified in the scriptures.

We know that at Pentecost, 3,000 were saved and baptized. How did they do that? Somehow, those 3,000 responded to Peter's exhortation to repent, and be baptized? How'd that work? Did they "come foward?" We don't kinow what the mechanics of getting it done were.

Seems to me that the Biblical way of calling men and women to repentance and faith is to state the claims of Christ (command, if you will) on them, then shut up and wait for the Holy Spirit to work..

You want 16 verses of "Just As I Am?" Or no music at all. Just shut up and wait?

We're quibbling over mechanics. If we are careful to be Biblical in our exhortation and avoid manipulation and other tricks, then I think there is some latitude in how that invitation is conducted.

And I've been in a couple of churches where no invitation is ever given at the end of the service. People are invited to meet the pastor after the service is over. Or make an appointment.

 

[Iconoclast]

Not to Paul who knew those who would be reached with the Gospel -- 2 Timothy 2:8-9

Strike one for you.



Then so was giving the Law by your logic. And God is no liar, even if you don't understand His ways. We preach the Gospel because we are commanded to do so -- the elect being saved is the result.

That's strike two for you.



Strike 3 happens on nothing less than name calling.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[righteousdude2]

I think what you are referring to is the

"And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt 4:19

Can any of you show me where it's recorded in the Bible that we are to walk the isle; make a decision; make a commitment; cough up the devil; recite a canned prayer; attend a class; or any of the other several requirements levied by individual churches? Give an invitation? Be in constant fear of "losing ones salvation".

Goodness!

Where is it recorded that preachers/laymen are to beg others to believe, to walk the isle, to make said decision, etc.?

Jesus never "begged" anyone. All he advocated was to, follow him. To repent. To believe. To follow...

We are instructed in Matt 11:28

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and LEARN of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

We that labor and are heavy laden..., with what? from what? Heavy laded, the results of the world? What is that LABOR that we are involved in that is so heavy?

We are to LEARN of Him.

His yoke is easy, and His burden is light.

...why do we make things so hard? Just for a name on the church rolls that adhere to the pre-approved..., "that's the way we do it here"?

Cookie-cutter Christian syndrome!

 

[Iconoclast]

thisnumbersdisconnected

Then evangelism is a waste of time

,

You failure to understand that God uses means does not make evangelism a waste of time.

the passages in the Bible that urge the sinner to seek God are lies,

All men everywhere are responsible to seek God...so we see that language used quite often,:thumbsup:

and preaching the gospel to the lost is useless.

preaching accomplishes all God intends for it to accomplish;
6 Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.


Is it okay with you that God sends His word to accomplish a specific purpose? The word Prospers when God wants it to.

Your assertions are hyper-Calvinist pap.

This shows that you do not know what you are speaking about.You are not the first to offer this misguided statement.

here from the 1689-
3._____ The revelation of the gospel unto sinners, made in divers times and by sundry parts, with the addition of promises and precepts for the obedience required therein, as to the nations and persons to whom it is granted, is merely of the sovereign will and good pleasure of God; not being annexed by virtue of any promise to the due improvement of men's natural abilities, by virtue of common light received without it, which none ever did make, or can do so; and therefore in all ages, the preaching of the gospel has been granted unto persons and nations, as to the extent or straitening of it, in great variety, according to the counsel of the will of God.
( Psalms 147:20; Acts 16:7; Romans 1:18-32 )

4._____ Although the gospel be the only outward means of revealing Christ and saving grace, and is, as such, abundantly sufficient thereunto; yet that men who are dead in trespasses may be born again, quickened or regenerated, there is moreover necessary an effectual insuperable work of the Holy Spirit upon the whole soul, for the producing in them a new spiritual life; without which no other means will effect their conversion unto God.
( Psalms 110:3; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 1:19, 20; John 6:44; 2 Corinthians 4:4, 6 )

Because Hamel and other believers get tired of all the shallow nonsense that passes for "evangelism"...is no reason for your false charge.

 

[Iconoclast]

:thumbs::applause:

Thank you Mr. Iconoclast. I assume you see the post as it was intended.

...you all do realize that Jesus was executed by the religious crowd of his day.
Has much changed over the years?

How did that thief on the cross get saved and at days end found himself in Paradise?

Your post was solid.You want to see souls get saved by God, not tricked by
sad stories,and emotional tricks to move a sinner to do something physical like moving from one part of a building to another part of the building.

Believers baptism and a Holy converted life of service are the visible signs of how we are to CONFESS Christ to the lost and dying world.:wavey::wavey:

Here is an article that shows this attack for what it is....
http://timmybrister.com/2008/12/hyper-calvinism-anti-calvinism-and-founders-ministries/

 

[HAMel]

A big thank you, to those of you who have the presence of mind to provide positive support for the intent of this thread. It's not really that hard to discern when we're told to "Follow me..."

From a Devotional e-mail I receive every day I offer up the following;

1 Kings 19:14 (NLT) He replied again, “I have zealously served the Lord God Almighty. But the people of Israel have broken their covenant with you, torn down your altars, and killed every one of your prophets. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me, too.”

As recorded, God had just used Elijah to call down fire from heaven in a spectacular display of divine power. But Elijah’s excitement was soon replaced by fear and hard work to include death threats which caused him to flee for his life. Now he was alone, exhausted, and discouraged.

Again, God came to Elijah. This time, He came not in fire or in a loud, spectacular way, but in a still, small voice. God’s servant was tired, and God brought him comfort. Elijah’s focus had shifted from God to God’s enemies. He had allowed his circumstances to overwhelm him, leaving him disoriented to God and feeling alone. So God encouraged him. God provided Elisha for him as a helper, friend, and companion.

Focus shifting! As believers I'm of the opinion that way to often we literally shift our focus, to that of feel good emotions and actions which leave us disoriented, when all we need do is follow Him.