For Arminians Re: Free Will

RC, I don't know if your post was directed at me or not, but it is heretical to say I need "4 more years of Greek" to understand the Bible. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. It is obvious and I have showed you how the word "ordained" has changed it's meaning since as recently as 1933. So even if you are correct about the tense of the verse (and you aren't), you haven't dealt with the proper meaning of the word "ordained. So you resort to insults.

70 translations? What better way to form and defend a false doctrine! You can find anything you want doing that.

 

Hi Monergist;
Isn't it out in left feild to apply what God did with Pharoah's heart to everyone else. God explained in His word why He did what He did. The fact that God did harden His heart shows me that unalterd predestination doesn't exist as Calvinism has insisted on. It shows that every individual was created for righteousness and not for destruction. It shows that God preplanned that everyone could be saved by faith. It disproves Total depravity, men only choosing what they are morally capable of. God had to harden Pharoah's to insure he didn't use his God given freewill to change his own mind and mess up God's demonstration of power and glory. If predestination existed as claimed by Calvinism then God wouldn't have had to harden pharoah's heart. Would He?.

Why ask for proof for something that never existed in scripture in the first place. In order to disprove a topic it has to exist in scripture to begin with. And it doesn't.

May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

It is obvious and I have showed you how the word "ordained" has changed it's meaning since as recently as 1933. So even if you are correct about the tense of the verse (and you aren't), you haven't dealt with the proper meaning of the word "ordained.

The word "ordained" has not changed at all! Koine Greek lexicons and theologians from over a thousand years and the councils have translated it "ordained" . Oh yeah... but along comes RnS with secular definitions (like that means ANYTHING) and usurps church history! Hmmm I'll think I'll stay with the Great Church Theologians, which by the way new Koine Greek much more than you and I.

If you knew Greek well, you would not be arguing this verse. It's strictly an argument from ignorance of Greek. It's like a 4th grader who just learned his multiplication tables and going to an 11th grade geometry teacher and arguing A2+B2=C3 because Billy (his 4th grade friend) said so and the teacher is wrong!! This obviously does not make it true...

Don't forget the teachers of you past !!
The righteous do not dwell in the land of forgetfulness.

 

rc;
This is a lie;

The bible wasn't translated into English Until the beginning of the 15th century not to mention that before the 1500's the Bible was forbidden to be owned or have in your possesion. Or any part of it.
Simply you failed history. In Europe no one had any manuscripts of the Bible except for the Catholic Church.

May Christ Shine His Light on Us All;
Mike

 

What does that have to do with anything? English? who cares? The term IN GREEK... I do think there are some Greeks around and KNOW the language... also the historic language also with hundreds and hundreds of documented examples in secular writings of what the word was !! And if you don't like that they have the Latin also... What does the Vulgate say? ... Here we go again... Backed into a corner when the big dogs come out and you run and hide behind "Those words don't mean the same!" ... What an infantile excuse... I guess Jesus wasn't Christ? Can we REALLY know that "Kristos" means what is does today? ... Maybe back then it just meant "Good guy"? ...

Maybe instead of hiding behind horrible excuses, trying to change "meanings" of words you should just admit the truth. You don't know Greek and definitely don't know it's grammar or ANY constructions.

 

rc;
It's still a lie

 

Rom 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

 

Hi Whetstone;
You quoted scripture and call me a judge;

You want to make me seem so evil. How ever the same verse applies to you as well. You with a heart that judges those who state truth and proved it.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

To judge fairly is not sin. How ever that board in your own eye gets in the way doesn't it.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

"rc;
It's still a lie "

I'll take that response as...
"I don't know anything rc, but I can't be wrong so I'm just going to put down something dumb."

And speaking of lying.... you should know something about that shouldn't you! What council was that ILL ? ... Still looking for it? It's been a couple of weeks now... Just say your wrong and you lied... We'll forgive you.

 

Rc;
You posted this;

So now you're being dishonest
I'll pray for you but being totally depraved well you know the rest.

 

Which council ILL? Why don't you just find another forum! You have no respect on this one.

Which council? ILL?
Have something to hide?
Shouldn't be to hard to find something SO obvious!

 

rc;
I answered your question a long time ago you called me a liar and said that Calvinism didn't come out of the Catholic church. Ask your buddie about that. Calvinist are called reformers of the Catholic faith. Just plain old warmed over Catholics
Mike

 

I find the Catholic understanding of grace to be a lot closer to Arminianism than calvinsim. Their beliefs are that we control our fate based on our actions or belief. They believe Christ died for everyone without exception. They believe you can fall away from salvation. They believe grace can be resisted. They believe election is based on foreknowledge rather than foreordination...

Come to think of it, maybe the Arminians should be in the 'different faiths' forum?!

 

Whetstone, the trouble with this sort of argument, is that you become guilty of going against the teachings of the Holy Bible.

It is the Bible that clearly states that Jesus died for everyone without exception (John 3:15-18; 5:39-40; Acts 2:21; 1 Timothy 1:15, 2:1-6, 4:9-10; Titus 2:11-14, 3:4-7; Hebrews 2:9; 1 John 2:2; 2 Peter 2:1, 3:9; Rev. 22:17, etc)

It is the Bible that teaches that the Holy Spirit can and is resisted (Acts 7:51)

Don't try to suggest that those who oppose Calvinism, are guilty of being Roman Catholics, as this is a complete distortion of the facts!

 

"rc;
I answered your question a long time ago you called me a liar and said that Calvinism didn't come out of the Catholic church "

Now your trying to change the subject matter !!!

My challenge to you was that you said
QUOTE: "There have been councils that have condemned Calvinism as heresy."

This LIE will not go passed by ILL. And I will not let you try to change the subject. It WAS NOT about Calvinism being apart of Catholicism, that was a different debate. So answer the challenge !

Which church council CONDEMNS Calvinism to be heresy? .... Which one !

 

Don't try to suggest that those who oppose Calvinism, are guilty of being Roman Catholics, as this is a complete distortion of the facts!

You don't know the argument well do you Icthus.

The only difference between Catholicism and Arminianism is Arminians believe the sacraments are necessary for salvation. (Even this they stole from Calvinist).

BUT they do believe in every thing else in Sotierlogical beliefs as the Catholics.

Catholics believe man has the ability to choose..
Catholics believe man has His part in salvation
Catholics believe Christ died for ALL.
Catholics believe you can resist the Holy Spirit
Catholics believe you can fall from Grace.

Now... Take Catholics out of that statement and place it will ILL, WES, or Icthus and you won't miss a beat...

Try doing alittle reading .... Like Bondage of the will. Erasmus was a GREEK philosophical HUMANIST! He debated for the ROMAN Catholic's against Luther in the Depravity of man. HMMM I think we know what side Luther was on ... So which side was the Arminianist on? Oh yeah , the Greek humanist Catholic side (this is where Arminianism has it's roots, humanism..)

 

Good points RC. I might also note that ALL false religions are Arminianism to one degree or another:

Islam believes man can merit his own salvation
Islam believes God's choice is based on their actions
Islam believes a person can fall from Allah's favor and apostasize

JW's believe man can merit his own salvation
JW's believe God's choice is based on what we do/believe
JW's believe Christ died for all mankind
JW's believe the holy spirit (a force) can be resisted
JW's believe you can fall away from grace

Mormons believe man can merit his own salvation
Mormons believe God's choice is based on what we do/believe
Mormons believe Christ died to open up a path that all men can achieve (as he was so you can be)
Mormons believe the holy spirit can be resisted
Mormons believe you can fall away from salvation by your actions

Arminianism is a cult in disguise. It has crept it's way into Baptist churches and may be the ultimate cause of preachers burning out in the ministry, people doubting their salvation, and evangelism dying a slow painful death. We need to return to the strong anti-man centered fundamental view of grace and reject the semi-pelagian philosophy that is overtaking Christendom.

Dan

 

YES!