Featured ? for Noncalvinists

the text literally says the bones rejoiced. My point is if you are going to use it literally to prove original sin, you can't then switch to it being symbolic like you did above.

If it is inherited, it's been imputed. Semantics. The only difference is the timing of imputation.

 

Inherited does not equal imputed. In this state, one can not be charged with any crime if they are under 7 years old when they commit the crime. A six year old could be a murderer, but the state would not impute that crime against him.
Same concept Paul and David address.

You are aware that Psalm is the most prophetic book in the bible?

 

I want you to tell me why babies die if they're sinless. When lust is conceived, it brings sin. When sin is finished, it brings death. How does a "sinless baby" die? It's contrary to what the record of God says...

 

Okay, I'll go ahead and show you where your view is fatally flawed, imo. You say that we didn't inherit Adam's sin/guilt, only the curse, correct? Now, what brought about the curse? Sin. How can we inherit Adam's curse...which was ushered in due to his sin...without his sins?


That's akin to saying I got a bucket of water throw upon me, but I didn't get wet....

 

One word, the curse. Why do animals die? How did a sinless Christ die? You completely reworded the meaning of James 1:15

 

Christ is 100% human. You are telling me He inherited Adams sins? How about my dog? Your analogy makes no sense. A more accurate analogy is me sleeping around on my wife, contracting HIV and then spreading that to my wife and all of my unborn children. Are they all guilty of my sin?

 

One is assigning something to be received, the other is receiving something that has been assigned. Same coin.

Prophetic or not, it is poetic and not all poetry should be taken literally. Here is the other Psalm used to prove Augustinianism...
Do you indeed decree what is right, you gods?

Do you judge the children of man uprightly?
2 No, in your hearts you devise wrongs;
your hands deal out violence on earth.
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb;
they go astray from birth, speaking lies.
4 They have venom like the venom of a serpent,
like the deaf adder that stops its ear,
5 so that it does not hear the voice of charmers
or of the cunning enchanter.
6 O God, break the teeth in their mouths;
tear out the fangs of the young lions, O Lord!
7 Let them vanish like water that runs away;
when he aims his arrows, let them be blunted.
8 Let them be like the snail that dissolves into slime,
like the stillborn child who never sees the sun.
9 Sooner than your pots can feel the heat of thorns,
whether green or ablaze, may he sweep them away![c]
10 The righteous will rejoice when he sees the vengeance;
he will bathe his feet in the blood of the wicked.
11 Mankind will say, “Surely there is a reward for the righteous;
surely there is a God who judges on earth.”

Here they take verse 3 literally, but I've never heard a baby speak at all from the womb let alone tell a lie. I also didn't know they had venom, either...or teeth, but I guess so as they must be broken. I guess God will then kill them with blunted arrows, and then we can wash our feet in their blood, right? If we take one verse literally we must do the same with the whole Psalm.

 

Babies die because:

Heb, 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die (< which I think was appointed before the foundation of the world, otherwise how could it have been appointed for the Christ, as of lamb, to shed his precious blood, before the foundation of the world?), but after this the judgment:

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he (Christ) also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Hebrews 2:14

Could that in Heb. 2:14 have taken place if the first man Adam had not been created, flesh and blood, subject to death?

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8

Manifested as what, as flesh and blood? Why? That through death.

God placed the man he had created, in his own image, in the garden he had planted where Satan, that old serpent, the devil was already present. Adam was created for the Christ to come in the figure thereof.

Did Adam fall or did Adam do exactly what God knew he would do? Bring death to all men.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. n_ Acc Sg f Sin, singular
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. n_ Acc Sg f[/B] Sin, singular

What singular sin is man sold under?

 

Christ was conceived by the Holy Ghost. He had no earthly father like you and I.

That which I bolded...you kinda made my argument for me. Adam's sin put us where we're at today. The whole man is sick...dead...due to his sin. He put us at enmity with God. Look at the ethiopians for instance. Their newborns suffer from starvation, sickness, death, not because of what they did, either. They were born into their circumstances because of their parents...ancestors. They felt the full effects, yet had nothing to do with their condition. Same with us. We felt the effects of what our parents did, and this all traces back to Adam...

 

Are you denying Christ is fully human?

Suffering due to the guilt of another is not charging those who are suffering with the guilt. Not sure how I made your point as you are teaching the wife and child who now have HIV are also guilty of the affair. You ironically didn't bold everything, must be the new trick of debate learned since becoming an Augustinian.

The curse is the affect of sin. Guilt is personal based on our choices (Ephesian 2:1)

 

Whoa there...I never said that. Christ was fully man, yet He wasn't conceived in intercourse like you and I.

We're at an impasse...so I'll pass...

 

For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under the sin. Rom. 7:14 NKJV and I added the word, "the," because it is there. (τὴν t_ Acc Sg f ἁμαρτίαν n_ Acc Sg f) The Sin singular.

Who sold the carnal man under the sin? Who was he sold to? Who was going to redeem the carnal man? What would be accomplished by this selling and redeeming? I say what is written in 1 John 3:8 and Hebrews 2:14.

For the wages of the sin death, Romans 6:23 Again I added the word, "the," ans removed the word, "is," for one is there and the other is, not. Once again, the sin, singular.

Jesus, born of woman, the Son of the living God was sinless to the moment he died. He was going to die because of, "the sin". He would either learn through sufferings obedience and become obedient unto death or he could fight going to cross to the bitter end thus becoming disobedient and dying forever. Be separated from the Father forever.

Faith is what God, the Father of Jesus, born of woman had in the blood of his Son to be born of woman. The Father had faith that the Son would learn and become obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.


Jesus through his obedience became, the faith of God.

Hebrews 12:2 looking to the author and perfecter of the faith -- Jesus, YLT I added the word, "the," because it is there.

Jesus authored and perfected, the faith of God.

God, before placed, Jesus as a place of mercy, a propitiation, through the faith in the blood of him. διὰ τῆς πίστεως ἐν τῷ αὐτοῦ αἵματι From Romans 3:25 That is speaking of the faith of God not our faith.

 

We are only at an impasse because you know my analogy is describing your doctrine to a t. You wouldn't dare say an unborn child is guilty of their father's sin, or the wife of his adultery, yet you hold to the exact same thing on a much grander scale.

 

convicted1 can answer for himself, however I will say, that unborn child will die because of the sin of the First man Adam and because of the obedience unto death of the last Adam that same child will be resurrected from the dead and judged.

 

Noooooo......little smug I see....



Look, Adam's sin put us at enmity with God. Take a newborn and go and live on a remote island. Teach that child nothing about evil and only God and His goodness. I'd be willing to be my last cracker they'd rebel against you, lie to you, steal off you. Children have to be taught to do the right things, but never the wrong. Infants/toddlers lie from very early on in life. This is due to the curse brought on by Adam....


Now, if babies inherited the curse from Adam, and that curse was caused by sin, then how does only the curse get passed on? If the curse was passed down, then so was the sin, seeing the sin brought the curse.

 

b----i---n---g---o!!!!

 

Jesus was conceived by the holy Spirit, and the Virgin Birth bypassed Sin of Adam, and other then him, all of us jave been norn as sinners!

 

God imputred the Sin and fall of adam towards us all after him....

So gulity before God before we due sinning, as we are born sinners!

 

What are imputred and gulity??


Not being mean, but please start using spellcheck.....

 

And you still haven't dealt with my analogy. All you are proving is that the curse and sin nature affects all men, not that Adam's guilt spread to all men.