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For SDA's on Sunday worship

Eric B

Active Member
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Paul argues that in the mere act of "observing" these pagan times "I have labored over you in vain". You seem to try hard to avoid that obvious point of the text since it shows "too well" the contrast between the pagan observances "condemned" in Gal 4 - and the God-ordained ordinances "approved and defended" in Romans 14.
Paul says that they "return again" to the worship of those things which by nature are not god at all. Paul then says that because they have done this "I fear that I have labored over you in vain". Paul makes it clear that it is a return to Paganism and that these pagan observances are to be totally condemned.
This shows that the origin for this observance of times - where the mere observance constitutes a "return" to things that pertain to that which is not god at all - is not identified in the text.
He says "I am afraid for you, LEST I have labored in vain". Once again, this is a warning, that you are acting like you were never saved. It does not say "AHA! you kept that day, now your salvation is revoked!" (Wow! they must have been doing something really horrible for that to happen! It can only be paganism! :rolleyes: ). If we had a convert who used to live a fast life, and then begins to fall back into it, we may say it looks like we labored in vain. But we can't say "Salvation revoked". To keep more in with this context, if that person instead became a rigid legalist, even to the point of being abusive (just like he was in the streets, let's say), we can still say that he in a sense "returned" to an aspect of his old life, even though the OUTWARD practices may be diametrically opposite, and in fact, based on commands taught in the Bible. Since unbelieving Jews were not saved either (v.3), yet kept the Law, it is possible for the adoptation of the old Jewish system to be a "return" to a lost condition, but Paul does not say they actually became lost again; it's just a warning that they are acting like it.
You are getting hung up on the word "return", and once again, mixing up v.8 and 9. For the last time, it does NOT say "return...to what is not God". It says they ONCE served what is not God, and "returned" to BONDAGE! Returned... to bondage. Returned... to bondage! WHATEVER the "bondage" is, it could either be pagan OR Jewish (v3). The Law itself was not bondage, but our fallen condition which could not keep it, and only condemned by it. The solution was not simply to add Jesus to the Law, but to set aside the old Law, which served its purpose in showing man's fallen condition, for the original basic moral and spiritual Law, written in the heart, and magnified to its spiritual intent. Anyone who kept days thinking they were gaining merit with God (e.g. "obeying" better than others) did not understand Christ, and after all Paul labored with them, it would SEEM "in vain". Yet, if they kept them as personal devotion to the Lord, that was pleasing to Him. Just what is so difficult about this to understand?
#1 The Greek term for "observe" in Gal 4 is NOT the term used in Romans 14 that is also translated "observe". Rather in the unique Gal 4 case it means" to "watch with evil intent" and refers to something like the astrology practices seen today.
So “instead” of the Gal 4 text addressing the popular notion of “obeying God’s Word when you don’t really have to if you don’t feel like it” – the Gal 4 text is condemning “observe” as in the pagan practice “...to inspect alongside" (i.e. to note insidiously). Where "Insidious" can be to "intended to entrap or beguile", or "stealthily treacherous or deceitful.
And here you go again getting hung up over "observe" and "times". Where in the words "evil intent", "insidious" or "trap or beguile" do you see any reference to ASTROLOGY?
All that says is that it was a bad motive, and in fact, these being Torah practices would make it all the more "insidious" (i.e. "trapping")! I showed you from the Greek and Hebrew that the English words are translating two different things. In Lev., it was pagan practices (not the word "observe", but rather the "times".) In Galatians, "observe" only denotes the evil intent, and the "times", in this case simply means "appointed times", and could be anybody's festivals. You have not even attempted to disprove this, except for just repeating your assertions, and that since you can't believe people could ever be wrong in their observance of days God once commanded, and it was so serious that God would revoke their salvation (both mistaken assumptions), then it can only be paganism
#2. God's Word did not command His people to "observe seasons or months".
They did have "appointed times", and they did have new moons.

#3, you just repeat the same unfounded assertions, as if they somehow prove themselves.
#4. In this case months and seasons are lumped in with days. The indication of a pagan system of practice is clearly - and repeatedly brought to view. Nothing here is ordained by God - established by God - given by God as a practice for God's people. It is utterly condemned as originating from pagan worship alone.
Where does it say anything about "ordained by God"? That is something else you add. Paul kept the system "ordained by God", and was still in the same "bondage" as everyone else. Remember, it was the "evil intent" that was condemned. Keeping even the things ordained by God with an "evil intent" is still condemned. You are so busy interpreting "evil intent" as "paganism", you don't even get what the passage is saying.
#5. Paul says this is “a return” and that they are “enslaved all over AGAIN” – these gentiles, these converted pagans – were never Jews. They are not returning to “salvation by keeping the Law of God” as something they “used to do”. This is simply “another” problem Paul is identifying among the Galatians that is in “Addition” to their problem with Judaizers
They were never Jews, but they were being influenced by Jews, who themselves were just as "enslaved" (v.3), so following them WOULD make them "enslaved all over again". That's the contrast Paul is showing here. Going from "Enslaved as pagans" to "enslaved as [wanna be] Jews". Neither is better than the other.
 

3AngelsMom

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Bob,

Are you saying that by keeping the time that Rome gave us (midnight to midnight), and the days, and months (365) instead of the Biblical calendar (multiples of 7 evenings and mornings, new moons, etc.) that we are following paganism?

-Kelly
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:
Bob,

Are you saying that by keeping the time that Rome gave us (midnight to midnight), and the days, and months (365) instead of the Biblical calendar (multiples of 7 evenings and mornings, new moons, etc.) that we are following paganism?

-Kelly
No the cult of the Emperor was much more than "starting your day at midnight" it was a system of "days, months, seasons and year" all dedicated to Emperor worship as the quotes show.

In Christ,

Bob
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
I said there are "TWO possible sources" for the "return again" to pagan practices in Gal 4.

#1. The Gentiles - pagans that were already participating in emperor worship in Galatia and already observaing pagan "Days, months, seasons and years" - JUST as we see in REAL life happening to the Heterodox Jews as to Catholic Christians in Latin America with their pagan worship systems blending in. This is not "theoretical" in the case of heterodox Jews and in the case of latin American Catholicism - it is being done.

#2. The other source is that Heterodox Jews - the SAME ones arguing for the Judaism of the Galatian Christians - are ALSO the ones adding to that - their heterodoxy.

The notion below that "heterodox Jews were restricted to Colossae" is not supported by any historian today.

Yet we see Eric going for it as follows

Eric said --
A type of heterodoxy is mentioned in Colossians regarding worshipping of angels and "neglecting of the flesh" (ascetic practices), but it would be quite a stretch for them to be leading the gentiles into pagan days. And that was Colossae, not Galatia. Now, you suggest again that they simply could have lapsed back into their old days without any outside influence. While this is hypothetically possible, once again, it is not in the context.
You are simply in error Eric - the Galatian gentiles were "returning again" to their worship of that which are "no gods at all" through their observance of the distinctly non-Jewish - pagan - "days, months, seasons and years" just as the commentators quoted agree.

And in all but one of them - the commentators themselves are not Sabbath keepers. You are simply wrong on your view here.

In Christ,

Bob
 

tamborine lady

Active Member
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