For those who want to know the Free Grace view of calvinism / arminianism...

[AresMan]

I know I have asked this many times, but here it is again:

If "works" must must follow faith or it is not "saving faith", then what are they? Can you please be specific. If such is true and must remain ambiguous, then there is no such a thing as absolute 100% assurance, and I surely don't think the gospel (good news) is all about me wondering the totality of my life whether I am truly saved and that my belief in Christ was "genuine".

 

[EdSutton]

I agree with you, AresMan!
Ed

 

[saturneptune]

Ed or Ares,
Please explain the question again about works following faith. Not sure I understand.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by DHK:
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

If grace isn't free; grace isn't grace.
Grace is the free unmerited favor of God.

You are correct. I should have said that free Grace was redundant rather than an oxymoron. Nevertheless, though as far as man is concerned Grace is the free unmerited favor of God, that Grace was purchased at a price, the blood of the God-man, Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:23-26
23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26. To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

[Andy T.]

Originally posted by bapmom:
ok Andy,

but what does that mean? Do you think that a person can be trusting in Christ as their Saviour and believing what the Bible says, and still be unsaved?

After all, there are moments when our own faith wavers. What if we someday have doubts? Does that automatically mean that we are not actually saved?

Those with dead faith are not saved as rhetorically answered in James 2:14. They are chaff among the wheat. So, no, they do not truly trust Christ as their Savior - they've only assented to certain facts as even the demons do.

Sure, Christians go through periods of doubt and fall into grave sin, but that is not who James is describing here. He is describing false professors.

 

[Andy T.]

Originally posted by AresMan:
I know I have asked this many times, but here it is again:

If "works" must must follow faith or it is not "saving faith", then what are they? Can you please be specific. If such is true and must remain ambiguous, then there is no such a thing as absolute 100% assurance, and I surely don't think the gospel (good news) is all about me wondering the totality of my life whether I am truly saved and that my belief in Christ was "genuine".

That is between the individual and God. The best we can do is preach and teach the Word of God and let the Holy Spirit convict where needed. And one of the truths of Scripture taught in James 2 and several places elsewhere is that there is such a thing as a false professor who says they are saved but they are not.

Of course, even though this is an individual matter, it does not preclude or override the need for solid church discipline, which many churches ignore these days.

 

[Dave]

Works are absolutely not a requirement for receiving salvation. That being said, the fruit of a new life (we are new creations in Christ) evidences itself in good works which will more abound as God works in us to do His good pleasure.

This only happens when there is a "saving" faith. The dead faith that James refers to is a surface faith (or belief) that never translates into a changed heart. This is not "saving" faith". Saving faith never turns into dead faith, but many have dead faith and think they are saved. They will be the ones who hear the dreaded words "Depart from me, I never knew you". Dead faith never penetrates the heart as is required for salvation and is not of God.

Repentence is not a work required for salvation, but rather the reaction of a changed heart to a holy God. In this sense it is evidence of the change that has been wrought, not something required as a pre-requisite to salvation.

 

[bapmom]

So how does an individual determine, at the time of salvation, whether their faith is "good enough" or a "true faith" or not?

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Originally posted by webdog:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Ed, I used the term "saving faith" as a contrast from "dead faith" as described in James 2. There is such a thing as dead faith, correct? And James teaches us that dead faith does not save.

This is not what dead faith means in context. The faith that is "dead" is being likened to a car that is "dead". It still exists, but is not "working". The phrase "dead" does not mean non existent. When we die, we do not become non existent, likewise, faith without works is "dead"...meaning not an active faith. </font>[/QUOTE]Actually, it means dead as in the second death (damnation).

 

[EdSutton]

Ain't nuthin like readin' my daily dose of good eisogesis on the BB!
Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Not to mention SEND AND receive posts that have nothing to do with the Opening Post(s), as well, which I'm good at. Like this one, but I WAS trying to hit a nice round figure of 400.
Ed

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by bapmom:
So how does an individual determine, at the time of salvation, whether their faith is "good enough" or a "true faith" or not?

I would say that a person with saving faith would know by the changes in heart attitude toward God and man, and an immediate desire (not necessarily action) to know God better and to do his expressed will. True repentence is in this, as repentence is the turning from sin to life. We are to mortify the flesh. Yes, I know this is a struggle as the sin nature is still a part of us in this world, but the DESIRE changes within us. We want our will to be subordinate to His, our life to be His to do whatever He wills with it.

However, there are many that will deceive themselves. Remember, "the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked, who can know it?". Many have an initial emotional "high" and then quickly it dies off and they go back to their old lifestyle. Some may have a try to follow what God wants but never fully commit themselves to Christ. They deceive themselves. This is probably the most tragic case, because they are not likely to listen to anyone telling them they need the Saviour because they have convinced themselves that they are saved.

 

[Jarthur001]

Bump....

Was posted long ago...and was dropped to soon.


FROM THE OP...

A response to calvinist's and arminians view of TULIP (Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistable Grace, Perseverance of the Saints)

from www.faithalone.org

T... http://www.faithalone.org/journal/2003i/badger.html

U...
http://www.faithalone.org/journal/2003ii/badger.html

L...
http://www.faithalone.org/journal/2004i/badger.html

I...
http://www.faithalone.org/journal/2004ii/badger.html

P...
http://www.faithalone.org/journal/1998i/Hodges.html

Read these links and tell me what you think.