For Whom Did Christ Die?... By John Owen

[37818]

I believe in GOD'S TRUE ELECTION!... What do you believe?

That is the only elect there are. Christ died to for many, but His elect are few.

 

[tyndale1946]

That is the only elect there are. Christ died to for many, but His elect are few.

That is true the Eternal Elect are many (in fact a numberless multitude) its the Disciple Elect that are few... Brother Glen

 

[Brightfame52]

Not according to Jesus, Matthew 22:14, ". . . For many are called, but few are chosen. . . ." Few are elect.

Only the elect are called unto Salvation, Matt 22:14 doesnt deny that

 

[Brightfame52]

That is the only elect there are. Christ died to for many, but His elect are few.

The Many Christ died for are the elect, and the same are called

 

[Silverhair]

Only the elect are called unto Salvation, Matt 22:14 doesnt deny that

Matthew 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."
While indeed many are called to the gospel-feast, it will be manifest by their disregarding it, there are but few chosen in such a sense as finally to partake of its blessings. This is indeed a dreadful truth, the greatest part of those to whom the gospel is offered, will either openly reject or secretly disobey it. In short, many hear, few believe. Individual response is essential if they are to be chosen by God unto salvation. While many may be members of the visible, not all are of the invisible church. Hebrews 11:6

Someone may say, “Many are called by Christ but not chosen by God.” Fair enough.
But note three inescapable facts:
1) Nowhere in the New Testament are we informed that the chosen were unconditionally chosen — nowhere. That is an idea imposed upon the biblical teaching of election.

2) If we receive the argument quoted above, that a person can be called but not unconditionally chosen, then that reveals a character flaw in the Lord. Does Christ call someone only for the Father to reject them?

3) However, if we adhere to the concept that the called, or invited, can fail to be among the chosen through rejection of the Son, then we properly frame the matter, allowing each person invited into the kingdom of God as being responsible to trust in Christ, and thus keep the integrity of Christ intact.

In case the matter is not self-evident, we must state clearly how inviting people into the kingdom who have not been unconditionally chosen for the kingdom, as per the Calvinist view, leads us to question the sincerity, integrity and character of God.

God has Himself has declared, through the authors of Scripture, that He genuinely loves this world of sinners (John 3:14-17), and desires the salvation of all persons (1 Timothy 2:3-4) within this world of sinners (Ezekiel 18:30-32; Ezekiel 33:11; 1 Timothy 2:4; 1 Timothy 4:10; 2 Peter_3:9), then we can be certain that God would not maintain a secret decree whereby there is listed the names of specific persons that He has unconditionally chosen or pre-selected to join Him in His eternal kingdom to the neglect of all others.

If unconditional election of Calvinism is the truth, then we conclude that God misleads people, inviting all into His eternal bliss but only secretly and efficaciously bringing to Himself through Christ those individuals listed on His eternal election clipboard. The integrity and character of God is at stake in this matter. The question is, Can God be trusted? Does He utter one statement and yet undermine it with some secret intention?

God’s "unconditional election", would mean some were randomly chosen to be saved, while others were randomly chosen not to be saved, in other words they were randomly chosen to be damned. And all this before they were born
If your one of those God unconditionally elected, your blessed and also lucky. You won the lottery, you were randomly selected rather than being one of those that were not.
Calvinist say they are unconditionally “called”, “chosen” or “elected.” Which in itself is quite odd considering that these three words would indicate a conditional selection rather than an unconditional or random one.
When you call, choose or elect someone you have a reason for it, unless you do it arbitrarily or randomly. Should we expect any different from God?

 

[Brightfame52]

Matthew 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."
While indeed many are called to the gospel-feast, it will be manifest by their disregarding it, there are but few chosen in such a sense as finally to partake of its blessings. This is indeed a dreadful truth, the greatest part of those to whom the gospel is offered, will either openly reject or secretly disobey it. In short, many hear, few believe. Individual response is essential if they are to be chosen by God unto salvation. While many may be members of the visible, not all are of the invisible church. Hebrews 11:6

Someone may say, “Many are called by Christ but not chosen by God.” Fair enough.
But note three inescapable facts:
1) Nowhere in the New Testament are we informed that the chosen were unconditionally chosen — nowhere. That is an idea imposed upon the biblical teaching of election.

2) If we receive the argument quoted above, that a person can be called but not unconditionally chosen, then that reveals a character flaw in the Lord. Does Christ call someone only for the Father to reject them?

3) However, if we adhere to the concept that the called, or invited, can fail to be among the chosen through rejection of the Son, then we properly frame the matter, allowing each person invited into the kingdom of God as being responsible to trust in Christ, and thus keep the integrity of Christ intact.

In case the matter is not self-evident, we must state clearly how inviting people into the kingdom who have not been unconditionally chosen for the kingdom, as per the Calvinist view, leads us to question the sincerity, integrity and character of God.

God has Himself has declared, through the authors of Scripture, that He genuinely loves this world of sinners (John 3:14-17), and desires the salvation of all persons (1 Timothy 2:3-4) within this world of sinners (Ezekiel 18:30-32; Ezekiel 33:11; 1 Timothy 2:4; 1 Timothy 4:10; 2 Peter_3:9), then we can be certain that God would not maintain a secret decree whereby there is listed the names of specific persons that He has unconditionally chosen or pre-selected to join Him in His eternal kingdom to the neglect of all others.

If unconditional election of Calvinism is the truth, then we conclude that God misleads people, inviting all into His eternal bliss but only secretly and efficaciously bringing to Himself through Christ those individuals listed on His eternal election clipboard. The integrity and character of God is at stake in this matter. The question is, Can God be trusted? Does He utter one statement and yet undermine it with some secret intention?

God’s "unconditional election", would mean some were randomly chosen to be saved, while others were randomly chosen not to be saved, in other words they were randomly chosen to be damned. And all this before they were born
If your one of those God unconditionally elected, your blessed and also lucky. You won the lottery, you were randomly selected rather than being one of those that were not.
Calvinist say they are unconditionally “called”, “chosen” or “elected.” Which in itself is quite odd considering that these three words would indicate a conditional selection rather than an unconditional or random one.
When you call, choose or elect someone you have a reason for it, unless you do it arbitrarily or randomly. Should we expect any different from God?

All for whom Christ died, will be effectually called unto Salvation, they were Chosen for Salvation, they are Gods elect. 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[37818]

.

All for whom Christ died, will be effectually called unto Salvation, . . .

The word of God nowhere teaches universalism. But a general redemption. 1 Timothy 2:5-6, ". . . the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, . . ."
2 Peter 2:1, ". . . But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. . . ." Jude 1:4, ". . . For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. . . ."

 

[Piper]

.
The word of God nowhere teaches universalism. But a general redemption. 1 Timothy 2:5-6, ". . . the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, . . ."
2 Peter 2:1, ". . . But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. . . ." Jude 1:4, ". . . For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. . . ."

And Owen answers all of those verses in his timeless book.

 

[Brightfame52]

.
The word of God nowhere teaches universalism. But a general redemption. 1 Timothy 2:5-6, ". . . the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, . . ."
2 Peter 2:1, ". . . But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. . . ." Jude 1:4, ". . . For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. . . ."

All for whom Christ died, will be effectually called unto Salvation, . .

 

[Brightfame52]

.
The word of God nowhere teaches universalism. But a general redemption. 1 Timothy 2:5-6, ". . . the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, . . ."
2 Peter 2:1, ". . . But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. . . ." Jude 1:4, ". . . For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. . . ."

Its apparent you deny the saving efficacy of Christs death, because you must believe people He died for still die in their sins for which He died for, thats unbelief

 

[Silverhair]

All for whom Christ died, will be effectually called unto Salvation, they were Chosen for Salvation, they are Gods elect. 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

@Brightfame52 your reading into the text a view that is not there. This does not support your unconditional election but actually shows the opposite. Those that are saved were saved because they responded to the gospel message.

The plain reading of the text describes our conditional election for salvation.

God has chosen you from the beginning to be saved
1] by the sanctification of the Spirit
and
2] through faith in the truth
to which
3] He called you by our {Paul's} gospel,
for
4] the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ

 

[Silverhair]

And Owen answers all of those verses in his timeless book.

That is Owens view from his Calvinist position but the bible does not support his view.

 

[Silverhair]

Its apparent you deny the saving efficacy of Christs death, because you must believe people He died for still die in their sins for which He died for, thats unbelief

1Co 15:14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

The death of Christ Jesus saved no one, it is because of ones faith in the risen Christ that one is saved. Christ was the appeasing sacrifice that covered the sins of mankind.
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Christ died for the who;e world but only those that freely trust in the risen son will be saved.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Brightfame52 your reading into the text a view that is not there. This does not support your unconditional election but actually shows the opposite. Those that are saved were saved because they responded to the gospel message.

The plain reading of the text describes our conditional election for salvation.

God has chosen you from the beginning to be saved
1] by the sanctification of the Spirit
and
2] through faith in the truth
to which
3] He called you by our {Paul's} gospel,
for
4] the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ

That passage shows who God calls by the Gospel to eternal glory, His Chosen.

 

[Brightfame52]

1Co 15:14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

The death of Christ Jesus saved no one, it is because of ones faith in the risen Christ that one is saved. Christ was the appeasing sacrifice that covered the sins of mankind.
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Christ died for the who;e world but only those that freely trust in the risen son will be saved.

You also dont believe in the saving efficacy of Christs Death if you believe He died for more than the saved ones.

 

[37818]

And Owen answers all of those verses in his timeless book.

Really? Quote it. Or page and book in mind.

 

[37818]

John Owen wrote this question "To The Reader," "To what purpose serves the general ransom, but only to assert that Almighty God would have the precious blood of his dear Son poured out for innumerable souls whom he will not have to share in any drop thereof, and so, in respect of them, to be spilt in vain, or else to be shed,for them only that they might be the deeper damned?"

 

[Piper]

Really? Quote it. Or page and book in mind.

The Death of Death in The Death of Christ.

1 Tim 2:5,6 p. 231ff and p 269

2 Peter 2:1 p 250-252

Jude 1:4 pp 289 ff, but he does not dwell on this particular verse for long, just mentions it n a general refutation of Universal Redemption.

 

[37818]

2 Peter 2:1 p 250-252

Jude 1:4 pp 289 ff, but he does not dwell on this particular verse for long, just mentions it n a general refutation of Universal Redemption.

He does not answer the claim Jude 1:4 identifies "the Lord" in 2 Peter 2:1.

 

[37818]

1 Tim 2:5,6 p. 231ff

Owen's argument, page 232, "Ans. The whole strength of this argument lies in the ambiguity of the word all, which being of various significations, and to be interpreted suitably to the matter in hand and the
things and persons whereof it is spoken, the whole may be granted, or several propositions denied, according as the acceptation of the word is enforced on us. That all or all men do not always comprehend all and every man that were, are, or shall be, may be made apparent by near five hundred instances from the Scripture. Taking, then, all and all men distributively, for some of all sorts, we grant the whole; taking them collectively, for all of all sorts, we deny
the minor, — namely, that God will have them all to be saved. To make our denial of this appear to be an evident truth, and agreeable to the mind of the Holy Ghost in this place,
two things must be considered:— 1. What is that will of God here mentioned, whereby he willeth all to be saved. 2. Who are the all of whom the apostle is in this place treating."
1 Timothy 2:4, ". . . Who will have all men . . . ." This detail he omits both pages.