Foreknew Israel Salvation Gentile

[Brother Bob]

Gen:1
26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.



God for sure chose the first man Adam to be in His likeness and in His image. So Adam was pre-chosen before He ever existed but even though He was in the image of God and after His likeness, Adam fell in sin.
So the first pre-chosen man fell from the Graces of God.

Was Adam pre-chosen but not one of the "elect", or was he one of the "elect" and fell?

 

[psalms109:31]

BB, you said:


Okay. Let's begin with babies. Those who are born prematurely and die before being able to believe. Those who are aborted, who are not able to grow up and get the chance to be in the presence of a preacher, and believe. And then, you have the idiots and morons. How are they going to believe and be saved ? Or are they condemned to hell because they are unable to comprehend, and therefore, believe ?

Luke 13
Repent or Perish
1Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

Hebrews 5:2
He is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and are going astray, since he himself is subject to weakness.

We are to bring the truth and the hope for all men to all men and let God deal with things that are out of our control.

As the scripture also say's

When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself.20 "Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 21 But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself."

2 Corinthians 5:16
So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us.

The devil wants to get us thinking about things we cannot change instead of bringing the world the hope God gave it through Jesus Christ.

We all are going to die a worldly death it doesn't matter when or where. If we do not repent we will die just like those aborted children.

 

[Brother Bob]

Okay. Let's begin with babies. Those who are born prematurely and die before being able to believe. Those who are aborted, who are not able to grow up and get the chance to be in the presence of a preacher, and believe. And then, you have the idiots and morons. How are they going to believe and be saved ? Or are they condemned to hell because they are unable to comprehend, and therefore, believe ?

Where there is no law sin is not imputed. The ones you mention have not the law and therefore cannot sin. The die because Adam sinned and they were born in the similtude of Adam but they never knew sin so they have not had the second death pronounced upon them.
Also, Jesus picked up a little child and said: "such is the Kingdom of Heaven" not going to be but is.
Apostle Paul said I was once alive without the Law. Well the Law was around a long time before Paul was born but there was a time the Law was there but Paul didn't have it now when could that of been. It was before He came to know to do good and do it not. It is foolish to say that a child is responsible for the law. Paul did grow up enough until the commandments did come and then was sin imputed and he died. Now he was still alive physical so what did he mean? He was dead in trespasses in sin.

The same is true with babies and those without sound minds.

Now I'm confused. In another post or thread you said salvation was by grace through faith, and in other threads where you post, you seem to be saying that salvation is thru Christ alone, but now it is by accepting Israel's God and being saved through Israel ? Again, I beg that these questions be answered:
Is God the God of the whole earth or not ? Is the whole earth accountable to God or not ? Do you believe that God started electing only when He created Israel, or did He have people whose names He knew and wrote in a book from before the foundation of the world ?
If God is the God of the whole earth, and He saved only those that believe, and that believing depends on their hearing the gospel, then, where is mercy for those before the gospel and for those who do not have opportunity to hear the gospel ?

Lot of questions, I will try.
1. By Grace through faith. That is the new covenant of Grace and is how everyone is saved but they must believe first.

Ephesians, chapter 2
"8": For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2. Grace is love. God so loved the whole world that He gave His only begotten Son. (Jesus Christ).
Therefore the Love of God is Jesus and by whom we all are saved.

3.46: In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof.
47: All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.
48: And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.
49: One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
50: Thus did all the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.
51: And it came to pass the selfsame day, that the LORD did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies.

4.12: Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14: Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

5. Hear the Gospel? There is an angel in heaven having the everlasting Gospel to preach to them that dwell on the earth. Also;

The Book of Job, chapter 32
"8": But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Hebrews, chapter 8
"11": And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Please show me one Scripture that was spoken to a child?

Ok Pinoy: Hope this is good enough for you. Peace :thumbs:

 

[Jarthur001]

Wyatt Erp and Jesse James squaring off here?

No..I need no shoot-out at the OK Corel....
not looking for a fight here.

This James will just put on his boots and head out of town....or I mean out of this tread..

 

[Brother Bob]

I certainly was not looking for a fight that is why I have stayed in this thread mostly. On your way out of town watch out for the sage brush, peace

Matthew, chapter 19
"17": And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments

Romans, chapter 3
3: For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
(This whole thing is talking about we must have faith, no one argues with that)

6: God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7: For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
8: And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

9: What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10: As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12: They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Paul included himself in this and he was already saved and it is simply saying that we cannot be saved by our own righteous but only by the Grace of God through faith. (We must believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the Living God.) "Except ye believe that I am He you shall die in your sins and where I am you cannot come. Peace

 

[npetreley]

You will need more to convince me this only talk about it will happen not that it happened before the foundation of the world.

Are you suggesting that God didn't plan on bringing salvation to the Gentiles until Hosea? Something caught God by surprise, and He had to change his plans? If so, you have to rewind that thought at least back to Deuteronomy:

32:43 Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people;
For He will avenge the blood of His servants,
And render vengeance to His adversaries;
He will provide atonement for His land and His people.”

It seems self-evident (at least to me) that He is saying "rejoice O Gentiles with His people [Israel], for He will avenge the blood of His servents [the elect from among both the Gentiles and Israel]. If "His servants" didn't include the Gentiles, then there would be no reason to tell them to rejoice.

But this is all moot. God planned everything from the end to the beginning. So if it says anywhere in the Bible that the salvation would come to the Gentiles, it was according to His plan before He created anything.

 

[Brother Bob]

Are you suggesting that God didn't plan on bringing salvation to the Gentiles until Hosea? Something caught God by surprise, and He had to change his plans? If so, you have to rewind that thought at least back to Deuteronomy:

Not saying that at all but I am saying that the Gentiles were not pre-chosen but that the fall of Israel is what it took before God did turn to the Gentiles. I am saying the Gentiles were aliens and had no hope until the fall of Israel and not before the foundation of the world and this is Scripture.

1: I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2: God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

3: Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4: But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5: Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6: And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of
works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7: What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

8: (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

9: And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:

10: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back always.

11: I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. (and not pre-chosen)

 

[Brother Bob]

It seems self-evident (at least to me) that He is saying "rejoice O Gentiles with His people [Israel], for He will avenge the blood of His servents [the elect from among both the Gentiles and Israel]. If "His servants" didn't include the Gentiles, then there would be no reason to tell them to rejoice.

Yes there would be a reason to rejoice especially the Gentiles for they now could be saved also by the "election by Grace".