Foreknowledge in 1 Peter 1:2

[Allan]

The only reason anyone has faith is because God grants/gives it.

You are entitle to your view.

People do not generate their own saving faith.

Agreed. The Lord must work in their heart in order for a person to believe. They can not and will not just believe of or by themselves apart from God.

The Lord knows His own because He has chosen them long before the earth was formed.

No one has disputed this but I have said much the same, so I am assuming you are helping me to make my point just in your words. Thank you.

 

[Allan]

God does not think up new things.To insist that He does is not orthodox.Nothing occurs to God!

Then you hold that God does not and can not think (which includes the aspect of planning)? Strange and unorthodox view for one to hold.

The reason God has chosen certain ones is because it pleased Him to do so. If you in all of your finiteness try to answer in another way then you are biblically wrong.

Of course it pleased Him to do so, no one has said otherwise.
What pleased Him to do so? What made you more special than all the others that were just like you? If nothing then God chose you arbitrarily.

I only answer according to what I see scripture saying repeatedly, so no, my answers just as biblical as yours. IOW - we stand on 'equal' footing my brother. :wavey:

Since God only gives faith to those He specifically intends to save -- who are you nto suggest otherwise?!

Not me! scripture does. I simply am following scripture.

BTW - you still have yet to learn grace and civility in your postings. Why?

 

[RunAway]

If God is not absolutely sovereign, He isn't God at all. Remember, we are the creation and not he Creator.

Cheers,

Jim

I don't understand how anyone could disagree that God must be ALL sovereign...He would not be God for sure apart from complete sovereignty.... But I also think that most people would not have a problem with a complete sovereign God who in all His wisdom,knowledge and complete understanding making a way for a man to be responsible for the way he responds to Christ in this life,weather it be a choice to reject Him or ACCEPT Him...

 

[Rippon]

You are entitle [sic]to your view.

Thanks it's biblical.You are free to believe anything you wish.But to denyy that God gives faith to the ones He has has chosen from before the foundation of the world is simply wrong.

 

[Rippon]

Then you hold that God does not and can not think (which includes the aspect of planning)? Strange and unorthodox view for one to hold.

God has never said :"I have an idea!";"I just thought of this!" or "I know what I'll do!"

Of course it pleased Him to do so, no one has said otherwise.
What pleased Him to do so? What made you more special than all the others that were just like you? If nothing then God chose you arbitrarily.

You always tend to go into speculative thinking which goes beyond the revealed Word of God.And contrary to your protestations you put your theology before the authority of the written Word of God.

God has the perfect right to chose one over another because ...listen closely -- He's God! He does anything He pleases and has no need to consult worms of the dust.

You need to focus on what the Word of God says and not rely on your man-made traditions.The Lord has mercy on some and hardens others.Do you have a complaint with it?! Who in the world do you think you are?! Stick with Scripture and let it rest there.Don't make false choices wherein if God doesn't do something according to your design then He is just operating on a whim.That's blasphemous.

..., so no, my answers just as biblical as yours. IOW - we stand on 'equal' footing my brother.

No,as I have just demonstrated above.

 

[webdog]

Thanks it's biblical.You are free to believe anything you wish.But to denyy that God gives faith to the ones He has has chosen from before the foundation of the world is simply wrong.

...so is your view.

 

[mparkerfd20]

...so is your view.

Oooh I wanna play... So is yours! :tongue3:

 

[Me4Him]

Thanks it's biblical.You are free to believe anything you wish.But to denyy that God gives faith to the ones He has has chosen from before the foundation of the world is simply wrong.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

If Jesus died for the sins of the whole world that the whole world "MIGHT BE" saved because God's will is that not any should perish,

"WHAT" is this missing "component" from the plan of salvation that everything God/Jesus have done only make it "POSSIBLE" that the whole world "MIGHT BE" saved rather than "WILL BE" saved????


2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Predestination (God's will) is denied by scripture.

 

[Tom Butler]

God has never said :"I have an idea!";"I just thought of this!" or "I know what I'll do!"

Or, as a friend of mine said, "Did it ever occur to you that nothing ever occurs to God?"

 

[Rippon]

Or, as a friend of mine said, "Did it ever occur to you that nothing ever occurs to God?"

I just used that old line in conversation with someone earlier tonight.

 

[Allan]

Or, as a friend of mine said, "Did it ever occur to you that nothing ever occurs to God?"

As I said Tom. Nothing occurs to God in the sense that once He has determined all things there is an "oops" in there. My comment was

Then you hold that God does not and can not think (which includes the aspect of planning)? Strange and unorthodox view for one to hold.

And I maintain it since Rippon nor any reformed doctrine has any scripture to back up this.. um... opinion/idea.
Ergo - it is a man made concoction for a theological position.

 

[Rippon]

So Allan,has God ever said any of the following :"I have an idea!";"I just thought of this!" or "I know what I'll do!"?

Awaiting your reply concerning the immutable God.

 

[webdog]

So Allan,has God ever said any of the following :"I have an idea!";"I just thought of this!" or "I know what I'll do!"?

Awaiting your reply concerning the immutable God.

Has He ever relented from anything? This is along the same lines of what you have posted.

God: Hezekiah, get your home in order you are about to die.
Hezekiah: Remember now, O LORD, I beseech You, how I have walked before You in truth and with a whole heart, and have done what is good in Your sight
God: I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; behold, I will add fifteen years to your life

 

[Allan]

So Allan,has God ever said any of the following :"I have an idea!";"I just thought of this!" or "I know what I'll do!"?

Awaiting your reply concerning the immutable God.

None of those are contrary to the immutability of God when you take what I said about this being 'before' His decrees.

Are YOU saying that God can not and does not think or plan?

Awaiting you reply concerning the very mind of God and how it works.

 

[ajg1959]

This is just an opinion and I in no way am throwing this out there as fact, but I believe that God created the concept of time as we know it, and as it pertains to us. If God created time, then is He confined by it? I think not.

Here I am sitting here waiting for the sun to come up. Is God sitting around waiting for it to come up also? I dont think so. I beleive that God is here in the present, also the past and the future all at the same time.

I beleive that "foreknowledge" and "predistination" are human concepts and apply to us only because we are confined by time, and that God is beyond that confinement. God is not confined, so He does know all. But, does that mean we dont have a free will? Of course not. Just because God knows what path we will choose doesnt mean He takes away our ability to choose it.

This topic makes me wonder what the concept of time will be like for us in heaven?

AJ

 

[Me4Him]

This is just an opinion and I in no way am throwing this out there as fact, but I believe that God created the concept of time as we know it, and as it pertains to us. If God created time, then is He confined by it? I think not.

Here I am sitting here waiting for the sun to come up. Is God sitting around waiting for it to come up also? I dont think so. I beleive that God is here in the present, also the past and the future all at the same time.

I beleive that "foreknowledge" and "predistination" are human concepts and apply to us only because we are confined by time, and that God is beyond that confinement. God is not confined, so He does know all. But, does that mean we dont have a free will? Of course not. Just because God knows what path we will choose doesnt mean He takes away our ability to choose it.

This topic makes me wonder what the concept of time will be like for us in heaven?

AJ

In scripture, time exist only when sin exist. (conscience of time passing)

God told Adam "in the day" you sin, you die,

Spiritually, Adam died the instance he sinned, but physically lived 930 years,

nevertheless, he still died "in the day" he sinned because a day with God is a thousand years.

No body has lived a thousand years on earth since sin enter the world, all have died "in the day" they sinned.

However we do live/reign a thousand years with Jesus and don't die, proof we're "free of sin".

Heaven is one long day, no night, no consciousness of time passing, while those in hell are tormented "day and night", conscience of time passing.

Re 22:5 And there shall be no night there;

Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[webdog]

In scripture, time exist only when sin exist. (conscience of time passing)

Wrong. Time is created for man, and man for time. When Christ returns, we will never stop being human. Time will never end, as is taught in many churches today...it is an urban legend. We know there is time in Heaven, and sin doesn't exist there (at least a half hour), and music requires time, as if there is no time, there can be no music. Music has meter, tempo...both qualities of time. There is one passage in the KJV that refers to time ending, but it wasn't the best translation.

 

[Rippon]

In his post numbered 54 Allan has affirmed that he thinks it is indeed possible for God to have said or thought :"I have an idea!";"I just thought of this!" or "I know what I'll do!"?

 

[J.D.]

This is just an opinion and I in no way am throwing this out there as fact, but I believe that God created the concept of time as we know it, and as it pertains to us. If God created time, then is He confined by it? I think not.

Here I am sitting here waiting for the sun to come up. Is God sitting around waiting for it to come up also? I dont think so. I beleive that God is here in the present, also the past and the future all at the same time.

I beleive that "foreknowledge" and "predistination" are human concepts and apply to us only because we are confined by time, and that God is beyond that confinement. God is not confined, so He does know all. But, does that mean we dont have a free will? Of course not. Just because God knows what path we will choose doesnt mean He takes away our ability to choose it.

This topic makes me wonder what the concept of time will be like for us in heaven?

AJ

Some nice sentiments but please allow me to address some issues.

1. I've never heard anyone say that God is "confined" by time - have you? Yet I've heard people repeatedly insist that God is not confined by time as if someone is running around claiming that He is.

2. Your analogy of the sunrise is a good one to show that God does not experience time the same way we do. But time does unfold before Him in an experiential way in my opinion. He is not already in the future because the future hasn't happened yet. Even though He has perfect knowledge of the future, and experiences it epistimically, yet He has not experienced it ontologically. I don't know if my view is considered orthodox or not.

3. We have a free will - free to act in accordance with our nature. However, we do not have the ability to choose that which is against our nature. We are dis-abled by our sinfull nature and are therefore unable to choose righteously unless God en-ables us to do so. God didn't take away our ability to do anything - you can blame Adam for that. But we should blame ourselves because if it were you or I, we would have done the same as Adam.

4. In the eternal state, time will not exist. We will not "experience" it in any way. Blows your mind, don't it?!

Edit: And most importantly, foreknowledge and predestination or NOT human concepts. They come straight from the Bible. I can give you references. However, the concept of libertarian free will is an invention of the depraved human mind. Not intended to be inflammatory - just raw facts.

 

[webdog]

In his post numbered 54 Allan has affirmed that he thinks it is indeed possible for God to have said or thought :"I have an idea!";"I just thought of this!" or "I know what I'll do!"?

Is God not sovereign over Himself and what He does? You dont' seem to think so...