Foreknown....found this on Monergism

[Zaatar71]

I have to disagree with you on Omniscience. Either God knows all or He does not.

God can choose to overlook somethings such as our sin {Act_17:30} but He still knows of our sin and also of our choice to trust in or reject Him.

You can make up your own story, but believers are to believe biblical teaching, not stories. No matter what is shown to you, you think your duty to deny it. Got it.

 

[Silverhair]

You can make up your own story, but believers are to believe biblical teaching, not stories. No matter what is shown to you, you think your duty to deny it. Got it.

Z what do you disagree with other than "He still knows of our sin and also of our choice to trust in or reject Him."

You can either believe the word of God or calvinism but not both.

 

[Zaatar71]

Z what do you disagree with other than "He still knows of our sin and also of our choice to trust in or reject Him."

You can either believe the word of God or calvinism but not both.

Calvinism fully taught is the teaching, of Jesus, The Apostles, and prophets. Your man centered theology, makes man as his own god, and attempts to portray the Biblical true and Living God as needing to learn what men will do, even though he says he looked from heaven and saw no one will seek God in psalm 14, which Paul quoted in romans3. So you have to deny those scriptures to declare that men can believe on their own, that they have not died in the fall, and have full ability, when scripture declares they are not subject to God, or His word. I only respond to your unbelief , for those who might read your ideas, rather than what God has said.

 

[Silverhair]

Calvinism fully taught is the teaching, of Jesus, The Apostles, and prophets. Your man centered theology, makes man as his own god, and attempts to portray the Biblical true and Living God as needing to learn what men will do, even though he says he looked from heaven and saw no one will seek God in psalm 14, which Paul quoted in romans3. So you have to deny those scriptures to declare that men can believe on their own, that they have not died in the fall, and have full ability, when scripture declares they are not subject to God, or His word. I only respond to your unbelief , for those who might read your ideas, rather than what God has said.

The bible does not teach pagan philosophy from the 4th century Z.

Mat 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.

Luk 12:31 But seek His kingdom, and these things will be added unto you.

Luk 13:24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able.

Act 17:27 God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us.

Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

Man can and does seek God but no one including the saved seek Him continuously.

Notice what Psa 14 says Z. No man is always good is always seeking God. It is the fool that says there is no God so we can understand that those who are not fools say there is a God. While the wicked may not learn we are told that God is with those who trust in Him.

 

[Zaatar71]

The bible does not teach pagan philosophy from the 4th century Z.

Mat 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.

Luk 12:31 But seek His kingdom, and these things will be added unto you.

Luk 13:24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able.

Act 17:27 God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us.

Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

Man can and does seek God but no one including the saved seek Him continuously.

Notice what Psa 14 says Z. No man is always good is always seeking God. It is the fool that says there is no God so we can understand that those who are not fools say there is a God. While the wicked may not learn we are told that God is with those who trust in Him.

These verses urge men to seek, it does not describe how that happens

The bible does not teach pagan philosophy from the 4th century Z.

Mat 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.

Luk 12:31 But seek His kingdom, and these things will be added unto you.

Luk 13:24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able.

Act 17:27 God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us.

Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

Man can and does seek God but no one including the saved seek Him continuously.

Notice what Psa 14 says Z. No man is always good is always seeking God. It is the fool that says there is no God so we can understand that those who are not fools say there is a God. While the wicked may not learn we are told that God is with those who trust in Him.

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Paul did not share your view. He said none.

 

[Silverhair]

These verses urge men to seek, it does not describe how that happens

urge /ûrj/

intransitive verb​

1. To force or drive forward or onward; impel.
2. To entreat earnestly and often repeatedly; exhort.
3. To advocate earnestly the doing, consideration, or approval of; press for.
   "urge passage of the bill; a speech urging moderation."

These are your options, which do you think God does?

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Paul did not share your view. He said none.

And again context topples your view. Paul was using hyperbole to make a point to the Jews he was speaking to.

We can know this when we look at the rest of his comments.
Rom 3:13 "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";

Rom 3:15 "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,

Rom 3:18 "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."

It is not that none seek God but that none always seek God that is why he tells us that
Rom 3:12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

 

[Ben1445]

Such posts and sources become necessary, when people demonstrate that even with help, they miss the clear truth! Thanks for your feedback!

You flatter yourself by thinking that you offer help.

 

[Zaatar71]

urge /ûrj/

intransitive verb​

1. To force or drive forward or onward; impel.
2. To entreat earnestly and often repeatedly; exhort.
3. To advocate earnestly the doing, consideration, or approval of; press for.
   "urge passage of the bill; a speech urging moderation."

These are your options, which do you think God does?


And again context topples your view. Paul was using hyperbole to make a point to the Jews he was speaking to.

We can know this when we look at the rest of his comments.
Rom 3:13 "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";

Rom 3:15 "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,

Rom 3:18 "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."

It is not that none seek God but that none always seek God that is why he tells us that
Rom 3:12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

You add words like the poster known as Van does. that "none always seek God",lol

 

[Silverhair]

You add words like the poster known as Van does. that "none always seek God",lol

So you avoid the question Z.

But I have to ask, what words did I add?

I will make it easy for you, Here is what I posted so just bold the words I added.

And again context topples your view. Paul was using hyperbole to make a point to the Jews he was speaking to.
We can know this when we look at the rest of his comments.

Rom 3:13 "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
Rom 3:15 "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
Rom 3:18 "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."
It is not that none seek God but that none always seek God that is why he tells us that
Rom 3:12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

I do have to ask why are you so anti-biblical.

 

[Zaatar71]

You do notice that Philip pointed him to Jesus via scripture. Philip did not say well this is what I think scripture means and than change the words or meaning of words to fit his special understanding.

Your original statement said that God does not use men. That anyone who listens to men Philip began at the same scripture, and preached unto are wrong. Here is where God uses a man to instruct another man. It says in verse 35,35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and
////....began at the same scripture,////// and preached unto him Jesus.
He began at the same scripture....
Silverhair claims [ Philip did not say well this is what I think scripture means and than change the words or meaning of words to fit his special understanding.]

Philip, being a good Calvinist, started at the same scripture, and supplied the biblical meaning of what the text was speaking of.
The Holy Spirit was instrumental in this.

How do Calvinists know this?

A plain reading of Isaiah 53 does not mention the name of Jesus.

That means Philip [a man] was used by the Holy Spirit to supply the truths of PSA to the Eunuch, and reveal the LORD JESUS CHRIST was the actual Identity of this Suffering servant. In fact Philip did exactly tell him, this is what I think it means, as well as the truth of believers baptism.

For some reason Silverhair and the other anti'Cals deny this clear teaching found in the text. They do this over and over. showing a spirit of rebellion and unbelief.

 

[Dave G]

In Scripture, God's foreknowledge—expressed by the term foreknown (proginōskō in Greek)—never refers to foresight or advance awareness of human decisions or actions, but always to His eternal, covenantal love and sovereign purpose set upon persons. Romans 8:29 says, "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate..." The key word is whom—not what. Paul does not say God predestined those whose faith, obedience, or potential He foresaw; rather, He foreknew persons, and on that basis—His sovereign love—He predestined them. In redemptive contexts, God's “knowing” always includes the idea of love, relationship, and divine purpose—not just awareness of facts.(e.g., Genesis 18:19, Amos 3:2). “You only have I known of all the families of the earth,” God says of Israel—not because He lacked information about other nations, but because He had set His covenantal love upon them.

Amen.

 

[Dave G]

This understanding becomes even clearer when we consider 1 Peter 1:20, where Christ is said to be “foreknown before the foundation of the world.” No one imagines that this means the Father looked into the future to see what choices Christ would make and then decided to send Him based on that foresight. Rather, it speaks of the Father’s eternal purpose and loving ordination of the Son to redeem sinners. The same meaning applies to believers: to be foreknown is to be foreloved and foreordained for grace—not to be foreseen as meriting grace. When Arminians claim that God’s election is based on foreseen faith, they misunderstand the nature of divine foreknowledge and inadvertently condition God's love on human action, thus making His grace a response rather than an initiative.

Agreed, only I wouldn't call them "Arminians" unless they wish to be referred to as such.

To me, many who claim the highlighted do so not really realizing or understanding what "foreknown" is, in meaning:
It's the same as the literal translation of "προγινώσκω" ( transliterated as proginōskō ) in Greek...
"Before-know" or "before-to-know", which signifies an intimate knowing, not just a "knowing about".

I understand this mainly from passages in which the Lord expresses His "knowing" of someone similarly to this:

" Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." ( Jeremiah 1:5 ).

As examples of this "foreknowing", I see that both David and Jeremiah are mentioned, by the Lord, this way in the Scriptures.

 

[Dave G]

It shifts the cause of salvation from God’s mercy to man’s decision, reversing the order of Romans 9:16—"So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy." True biblical foreknowledge affirms that God's love is not reactive but initiating, not earned but free, not based on conditions in us but flowing from His own glorious purpose and will.

I agree.

By doing so, I see that it also shifts God's unmerited grace and favor into the realm of merit, making grace into works ( Romans 11:5-6 ).
This has been touched upon, in great detail, on this forum for quite some time now...

Since long before I began posting here, and among those who profess Christ since long before any of us were born.

 

[Zaatar71]

I agree.

By doing so, I see that it also shifts God's unmerited grace and favor into the realm of merit, making grace into works ( Romans 11:5-6 ).
This has been touched upon, in great detail, on this forum for quite some time now.

Yes Dave G. It is so clear. Why do you think that they resist so many voices like yours simply offering truth?
Why would any Christian not give full glory to God?

 

[Dave G]

Why do you think that they resist so many voices like yours simply offering truth?

Because they don't see it for themselves when they read the Scriptures, sir.

 

[Zaatar71]

You flatter yourself by thinking that you offer help.

Hey Ben, Because you do not want help ,does not mean it was not offered. There looks to be a steady flow of error, coming from the Non-Cal Keyboards. It is exposed post, by post. I and others do not have to "flatter ourselves". We just are responsible to offer truth to the expressed error that we see on thread after thread. Thanks for your lack of charity, and smug judgment.

 

[Silverhair]

Your original statement said that God does not use men. That anyone who listens to men Philip began at the same scripture, and preached unto are wrong.

Care to show me where I said what you claim I said?

Philip, being a good Calvinist, started at the same scripture, and supplied the biblical meaning of what the text was speaking of.

Couple of problems with your post.

Philip could not have been a calvinist as augustine had not yet brought pagan philosophy into the church.

And two Philip did not try to make the word odd God fit some odd non biblical philosophy.

 

[Zaatar71]

Care to show me where I said what you claim I said?

Yes,,here is your post#22

If you have to trust in man then you are trusting in the wrong thing.

vs31 says;31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? He trusted the man Philip...do you see what you said is wrong based on this scripture?

 

[Silverhair]

Why would I trust in man rather than in the word of God?

 

[Zaatar71]

Couple of problems with your post.

Philip could not have been a calvinist as augustine had not yet brought pagan philosophy into the church.

And two Philip did not try to make the word odd God fit some odd non biblical philosophy.

Philip was a Calvinist as that is where Calvinists get the teaching, from scripture. It does not depend on Calvin or Augustine....Calvinism is a term...Moses was a Calvinist, The Old testament Prophets were Calvinists. They believed God was absolutely in control of whatsoever comes to pass.

I notice how once again, you totally ignore the help offered to you as if it was not offered!
I will repeat that verse for you again;
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

I will post it again, if you or the other deniers missed it;

Philip, being a good Calvinist, started at the same scripture, and supplied the biblical meaning of what the text was speaking of.
The Holy Spirit was instrumental in this.

How do Calvinists know this?

A plain reading of Isaiah 53 does not mention the name of Jesus.

That means Philip [a man] was used by the Holy Spirit to supply the truths of PSA to the Eunuch, and reveal the LORD JESUS CHRIST was the actual Identity of this Suffering servant. In fact Philip did exactly tell him, this is what I think it means, as well as the truth of believers baptism.

For some reason Silverhair and the other anti'Cals deny this clear teaching found in the text. They do this over and over. showing a spirit of rebellion and unbelief.