There has been much discussion in another thread about OSAS, losing salvation, forfeiting salvation, etc. Something that kept happening over and over in that thread was people that did not subscribe to OSAS having to explain that they did not believe in a Christian being able to "lose" his salvation but did believe in the possiblity of a Christian being able to forfeit his salvation. I know what I believe the difference is between one losing salvation verses forfeiting salvation, but I am curious to see what others believe the difference is between the two. I also thought that this might give those that really do not see a difference between the two to see what is meant by "forfeiting" salvation.
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Forfeiting Salvation versus Losing Salvation - What is the difference?
- Thread starter ccdnt
- Start date
I was doing some reading on this, and found a quite good biblical argument on it.
1Peter says we are kept by God's power, if we could forfeit our salvation we'd have more power then God.
Heb 13, He's not going anywhere, you might chose to live like your not a christian , but he says your his and staying that way.
John6, He's not losing you, even by your own desire to have nothing to do with Him.
1Peter says we are kept by God's power, if we could forfeit our salvation we'd have more power then God.
Heb 13, He's not going anywhere, you might chose to live like your not a christian , but he says your his and staying that way.
John6, He's not losing you, even by your own desire to have nothing to do with Him.
I would like this thread to not turn into a OSAS versus Conditional Security debate if at all possible. That debate has/is already taken place in the "Yos Can't Lose Salvation" thread. In that thread what you have brought up has already been addressed. This thread is just to help understand the difference between "losing" salvation and "forfeiting" salvation.donnA said:
The word makes it plain that salvation cannot be snatched away, meaning without your consent.
But, apostasy is a turning away from the faith, is it not? I cannot imagine why anyone would turn away from God after having received His glorious gift of salvation, but you can't deny what the word says about it. People do it. Some say maybe they were never saved to begin with, but you can't turn away from something you never had. Right?
I have never read anything in scripture where God forced anyone to love Him or accept His gift of salvation. If we're not forced to accept it, are we forced to keep it? Just a question, don't attack me.
The same people who say God 'keeps' us from turning away also say that He does not 'keep' us from committting certain sins which the Bible makes plain that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom.
But, apostasy is a turning away from the faith, is it not? I cannot imagine why anyone would turn away from God after having received His glorious gift of salvation, but you can't deny what the word says about it. People do it. Some say maybe they were never saved to begin with, but you can't turn away from something you never had. Right?
I have never read anything in scripture where God forced anyone to love Him or accept His gift of salvation. If we're not forced to accept it, are we forced to keep it? Just a question, don't attack me.
The same people who say God 'keeps' us from turning away also say that He does not 'keep' us from committting certain sins which the Bible makes plain that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom.
just scratchin the surface here...
but i think "losing" and "forfeiting" salvation -- is essentially one in the same.
>> you lose salvation - how? by choosing a different religion (other than atheism and agnosticism)
>> you forfeit salvation - how? by choosing to not have salvation in Christ. essentially choosing a different religion. (but includes atheism and agnosticism)
make any sense? or am i just messin it all up?
this only at first glance - i don't fully believe or not-believe this yet. what're thoughts?
but i think "losing" and "forfeiting" salvation -- is essentially one in the same.
>> you lose salvation - how? by choosing a different religion (other than atheism and agnosticism)
>> you forfeit salvation - how? by choosing to not have salvation in Christ. essentially choosing a different religion. (but includes atheism and agnosticism)
make any sense? or am i just messin it all up?
this only at first glance - i don't fully believe or not-believe this yet. what're thoughts?
I was going to respond to this post a couple of times and got pulled away for one reason or another, but I think it will be a go this time
I think too much is being made of lose and/or forfeit, when the real discussion should be on the word salvation. Everyone assumes (bad thing to do) that when "salvation" is mentioned that eternal salvation is the context, but more often than not the context is not eternal salvation.
So the question really should be what "salvation" can one lose or forfeit?
I think too much is being made of lose and/or forfeit, when the real discussion should be on the word salvation. Everyone assumes (bad thing to do) that when "salvation" is mentioned that eternal salvation is the context, but more often than not the context is not eternal salvation.
So the question really should be what "salvation" can one lose or forfeit?
I don't see how you can avoid the situation. One who has forfeited something has lost it. If, per chance, I must forfeit my house, then I have lost it. The reason of my forfeiture may be many. It doesn't matter. The end result is the same. The house is gone. It is lost--at least to me.ccdnt said:
But praise God, salvation cannot be lost. I am kept by the power of God's hand. Salvation is all of God. "I know whom I have believed and he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
Are you suggesting that Christ is not able to keep my salvation?
Whether there is a possibility of forfeiture or losing it in some other way, it would contradict the promises of God, who promises that he will keep me, hold me, save me, seal me, redeem me, make me one of his own, part of his family, and never forsake me even until the very end. How could one ask for any less?
What is apostasy? What do these verses mean?DHK said:
1 Timothy 4
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,
Brother Bob
New Member
The only thing you can do is forfeit your Salvation and that is instead of "the Light" you choose darkness. There is no such thing as "lose" your Salvation.
1Pe 1:5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
If you forfeit a ballgame, you never did play the game but chose not to. Therefore you are considered the loser.
1Pe 1:5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
If you forfeit a ballgame, you never did play the game but chose not to. Therefore you are considered the loser.
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I don't think that one can lose their salvation, but I'm just asking about apostasy. It means to fall away from the faith. You would have to already have faith in order to fall away from it. This sounds like forfeiting your salvation. Can't imagine why someone would do that, but what else could it mean?Brother Bob said:
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.Amy.G said:
One might say they were never real Christians in the first place. John says they were in the church. He infers that the people thought they were Christians, but they were not. They knew they were not because if they were "true believers" they would have continued with us," he says.
Is this the same as what we today call apostasy? They never were saved in the first place.
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Brother Bob
New Member
The following sure seem like the ones spoken of in the above scripture to me Amy. Every man has the measure of faith until they are turned over to a reprobate mind.
Rom 12:3 ¶ For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Its just my feel on the scripture of turning from the faith.
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Well I guess for those that think man is a bi-part being there might only be two, but Scripture teaches us that man is a tri-part being, so there is actually three salvations. The salvation of the spirit, the soul and the body.
And yes Scripture makes these distinctions quite clear. If you are interested in studying the matter out just give me a PM and I can direct you to some study material or we can communicate one on one. Whatever way works best for you.
Forfeiting salvation - Arminius believed a Christian could only forfeit his salvation by apostasy, i.e. making a decision to stop trusting Christ as savior.
Losing salvation - John Wesley believed a Christian could lose his salvation by: apostasy, not forgiving others, or not confessing known sins and being remorseful.
Source: The book "Four Views on Eternal Security" written by four theology professors with the four different views.
Losing salvation - John Wesley believed a Christian could lose his salvation by: apostasy, not forgiving others, or not confessing known sins and being remorseful.
Source: The book "Four Views on Eternal Security" written by four theology professors with the four different views.
Brother Bob
New Member
Well if you believe in losing your Salvation, then you could accept Arminius theory or John Wesley's. You could forfeit something after you have it, but I don't believe you can forfeit your Salvation. So the only faith you could forfeit, as I believe, would be the "measure of faith", Unless you believe in a fall.
As DHK said, some went out because they were not of us, and there are some, where the blind lead the blind. Maybe they have some kind of a faith (dead faith), but not the faith that was delivered unto the Saints.
As DHK said, some went out because they were not of us, and there are some, where the blind lead the blind. Maybe they have some kind of a faith (dead faith), but not the faith that was delivered unto the Saints.
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DHK said:
There has been plently already said in that other thread that shows how Scripture supports that one can choose to turn away from Christ. I have given several verses in that thread that warn against falling away and show that one must continue in the faith. I guess I could put in this thread what has already been said in that other thread, but if anyone wants to read my rebuttals to what has been said in support of OSAS, it is in the other thread I have already referenced.