Forgive Them

[ktn4eg]

"Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." --- Luke 23:34a


I've got some questions about this request that Jesus made to His Father as He was being crucified.

Who exactly were the "they" to which Jesus was referring? I would imagine that the people that Jesus asked His Father to forgive were either Roman soldiers, or, perhaps they were Jewish people who were compelled by the Roman officials to put Jesus on the cross (or possibly both groups of people).

To what extent were these people forgiven? Were they forgiven only for performing the physical act of putting Jesus on the cross? Or, were they forgiven for all of their sins in the same sense that a person is forgiven of all of his sins when that person puts his trust in Jesus Christ as his Savior?

Were the people who received this forgiveness actually aware of their being forgiven? In other words, did they actually sense the fact that they were forgiven?

What are your answers to these questions?

 

[kyredneck]

My opinion hasn't changed since the last time you asked.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=77796

---------------------------------

A.W. Pink:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1826436#post1826436

“..... This cross-intercession of Christ for his enemies met with a marked and definite answer. The answer is seen in the conversion of the three thousand souls on the day of Pentecost. I base this conclusion on Acts 3:17 where the apostle Peter says, "And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers." It is to be noted that Peter used the word "ignorance" which corresponds with our Lord’s "they know not what they do". Here then is the divine explanation of the 3,000 converted under a single sermon. It was not Peter’s eloquence which was the cause but the Saviour’s prayer.....”

“What a complete picture did the Holy Spirit furnish of our Lord’s Passion with all the attendant circumstances! Among other things it had been foretold that the Saviour should "make intercession for the transgressors" (Isaiah 53:12). This did not have reference to the present ministry of Christ at God’s right hand. It is true that "he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them" (Hebrews 7:25), but this speaks of what he is doing now for those who have believed on him, whereas Isaiah 53:12 had reference to his gracious act at the time of his crucifixion. Observe what his intercession for the transgressors is there linked with - "and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

That Christ should make intercession for his enemies was one of the items of the wonderful prophecy found in Isaiah 53. This chapter tells us at least ten things about the humiliation and suffering of the Redeemer. It declared that he should be despised and rejected of men; that he should be a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; that he should be wounded, bruised and chastised; that he should be led, unresistingly, to slaughter; that he should be dumb before his shearers; that he should not only suffer at the hands of man but also be bruised by the Lord; that he should pour out his soul unto death; that he should be buried in a rich man’s tomb; and then it was added, that he would be numbered with transgressors; and finally, that he should make intercession for the transgressors. Here then was the prophecy - "and made intercession for the transgressors"; there was the fulfillment of it - "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do". He thought of his murderers. He pleaded for his crucifiers; he made intercession for their forgiveness......”

 

[OldRegular]

I would imagine that the people that Jesus asked His Father to forgive were either Roman soldiers, or, perhaps they were Jewish people who were compelled by the Roman officials to put Jesus on the cross (or possibly both groups of people).

Where does this

Jewish people who were compelled by the Roman officials to put Jesus on the cross

come from.

As I recall it was the Jews who conned Pilate/Rome into Crucifying Jesus Christ. Just a couple passages of Scripture:

John 18:28-40
28. Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.
29. Pilate then went out unto them, and said, What accusation bring ye against this man?
30. They answered and said unto him, If he were not a malefactor, we would not have delivered him up unto thee.
31. Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death:
32. That the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he spake, signifying what death he should die.
33. Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?
34. Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
35. Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
36. Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
37. Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
38. Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
39. But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?
40. Then cried they all again, saying, Not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber.

And then:

John 19:10-23
10. Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
11. Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
12. And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar’s friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.
13. When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
14. And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
15. But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
16. Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.
17. And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
18. Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.
19. And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
20* This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
21. Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
22.Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.
23. Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.

 

[kyredneck]

....As I recall it was the Jews who conned Pilate/Rome into Crucifying Jesus Christ.....

Spot on.

Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth.....ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay: Acts 2:22,23

No where does the Spirit convict the Romans of the crime. The blood guilt for His judicial murder is laid squarely on the Jews, repeatedly.

 

[ktn4eg]

Old Regular:

In answer to your question "Where does this come from," I merely stated what was my own personal speculation.

I would, however, appreciate reading your response to my other questions that I posed in my OP.

 

[kyredneck]

Were the people who received this forgiveness actually aware of their being forgiven?

First they had to be made to understand that they were guilty, which began to occur here:

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and the rest of the apostles, Brethren, what shall we do? Acts 2:37

In other words, did they actually sense the fact that they were forgiven?

When they received remission of their sins there's no doubt they sensed great relief:

And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

 

[clark thompson]

"Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." --- Luke 23:34a


I've got some questions about this request that Jesus made to His Father as He was being crucified.

Who exactly were the "they" to which Jesus was referring? I would imagine that the people that Jesus asked His Father to forgive were either Roman soldiers, or, perhaps they were Jewish people who were compelled by the Roman officials to put Jesus on the cross (or possibly both groups of people).

To what extent were these people forgiven? Were they forgiven only for performing the physical act of putting Jesus on the cross? Or, were they forgiven for all of their sins in the same sense that a person is forgiven of all of his sins when that person puts his trust in Jesus Christ as his Savior?

Were the people who received this forgiveness actually aware of their being forgiven? In other words, did they actually sense the fact that they were forgiven?

What are your answers to these questions?

I think the forgiveness was to anyone who would receive Him, we are forgiven because of what He did on the cross.

 

[quantumfaith]

My opinion hasn't changed since the last time you asked.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=77796

---------------------------------

A.W. Pink:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1826436#post1826436

“..... This cross-intercession of Christ for his enemies met with a marked and definite answer. The answer is seen in the conversion of the three thousand souls on the day of Pentecost. I base this conclusion on Acts 3:17 where the apostle Peter says, "And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers." It is to be noted that Peter used the word "ignorance" which corresponds with our Lord’s "they know not what they do". Here then is the divine explanation of the 3,000 converted under a single sermon. It was not Peter’s eloquence which was the cause but the Saviour’s prayer.....”

“What a complete picture did the Holy Spirit furnish of our Lord’s Passion with all the attendant circumstances! Among other things it had been foretold that the Saviour should "make intercession for the transgressors" (Isaiah 53:12). This did not have reference to the present ministry of Christ at God’s right hand. It is true that "he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them" (Hebrews 7:25), but this speaks of what he is doing now for those who have believed on him, whereas Isaiah 53:12 had reference to his gracious act at the time of his crucifixion. Observe what his intercession for the transgressors is there linked with - "and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

That Christ should make intercession for his enemies was one of the items of the wonderful prophecy found in Isaiah 53. This chapter tells us at least ten things about the humiliation and suffering of the Redeemer. It declared that he should be despised and rejected of men; that he should be a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; that he should be wounded, bruised and chastised; that he should be led, unresistingly, to slaughter; that he should be dumb before his shearers; that he should not only suffer at the hands of man but also be bruised by the Lord; that he should pour out his soul unto death; that he should be buried in a rich man’s tomb; and then it was added, that he would be numbered with transgressors; and finally, that he should make intercession for the transgressors. Here then was the prophecy - "and made intercession for the transgressors"; there was the fulfillment of it - "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do". He thought of his murderers. He pleaded for his crucifiers; he made intercession for their forgiveness......”

"You cannot put into context a passage in Luke using an unrelated passage in John where Jesus is praying for His 12." (Webdog) Cited from the aforementioned previous thread.

 

[kyredneck]

"You cannot put into context a passage in Luke using an unrelated passage in John where Jesus is praying for His 12." (Webdog) Cited from the aforementioned previous thread.

"13 And the lord of the vineyard said, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son; it may be they will reverence him.
14 But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned one with another, saying, This is the heir; let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.
15 And they cast him forth out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore will the lord of the vineyard do unto them?
16 He will come and destroy these husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.
17 But he looked upon them, and said, What then is this that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner?
18 Every one that falleth on that stone shall be broken to pieces; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will scatter him as dust.
19 And the scribes and the chief priests sought to lay hands on him in that very hour; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he spake this parable against them. Lu 20

that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Mt 23:35,36

It's quite obvious there were those who were NOT forgiven for that awful crime."

Cited from the aforementioned previous thread.