"Forsake sin" FOR Salvation?

[Jarthur001]

Notice how the LS apologists continue to evade dealing with the meaning and implications of this statement,
MacArthur is calling on the lost for a commitment to, “forsake everything” FOR salvation. This is not just over what should follow and be part of salvation. No, MacArthur says that to become a Christian a commitment to “forsake everything” is required FOR salvation. This is a works-based message that frustrates grace (Gal. 2:21)!

Zeller wrote, "We need to avoid the dangerous error of taking what should be the RESULT of salvation and making it the REQUIREMENT for salvation." That concisely addresses those who are looking at this through the doctrines of salvation and discipleship. I deal with and thoroughly document this issue in John MacArthur’s Discipleship Salvation.

I am asking for any pro-LS advocate for a clear Bible response, apart from the trappings of extra-biblical logic, to whether or not “salvation is for those who are willing forsake everything?”

To Lurkers: Lordship Salvation calls on lost men to “forsake everything,” to make a commitment to obedience FOR salvation. The results of salvation are never the requirements FOR salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9). That is the crux of the doctrinal controversy, and what proves Lordship Salvation is a man-centered, works-based message that frustrates grace (Gal. 2:21).


LM

PS: Be sure to read the helpful series by George Zeller, The Dangers of Reformed Theology.

It shold be clear to all what MacArthur teachings are. Lou post other mens view while you can read MacArthur 1st hand.

"Let me say as clearly as possible right now that salvation is by God's sovereign grace and grace alone. Nothing a lost, degenerate, spiritually dead sinner can do will in any way contribute to salvation. Saving faith, repentance, commitment, and obedience are all divine works, wrought by the Holy Spirit in the heart of everyone who is saved. . . . Real salvation cannot and will not fail to produce works of righteousness in the life of a true believer" (p. xiii.)

This is nothing but folly for Lou to keep posting others and what they claim MacArthur says, when we can read it on our own.

Why mislead Lou?

You can say a dog's tail is a leg, but the dog will still have 4 legs not 5.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

It shold be clear to all what MacArthur teachings are. Lou post other mens view while you can read MacArthur 1st hand.



This is nothing but folly for Lou to keep posting others and what they claim MacArthur says, when we can read it on our own.

Why mislead Lou?

You can say a dog's tail is a leg, but the dog will still have 4 legs not 5.

Jarth,

The man is obscessed! He just started yet ANOTHER thread on the same thing. lol

 

[HankD]

I came, I lurked, I :laugh:

And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God. Then said he unto him,

A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:

17And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.

18And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.

19And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.

20And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.

21So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.

22And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.

23And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.

24For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

25And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,

26If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

27And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

28For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

29Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,

30Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

31Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?

32Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.

33So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Matt 28:18-20

Lordship Salvation doesn't call men to forsake everything, the LORD of Salvation does. Have you forsook all to follow Jesus Lou? Unless you do, you CANNOT be His disciple.

And how many of us can honestly say they have done this?

Do we really hate our parents? Wife?, children, your own life?
It says hate not "love less".

I also notice that in verse 33 Jesus did not say "you must be willing to forsake all" but that you actually must forsake all.

Who of us here has done that and if you have, how is it you have a computer?

Do you have a home? a car? a bank account, a retirement plan, Insurance policies, etc, etc, etc, here in the most affluent nation on earth?

I guess we are all doomed like the rich young ruler who balked at the Lord's requirement to forsake all.

Can we at least be men and women enough to say we haven't forsaken all? I haven't.

However, I can say this :Jesus Christ is not only my Lord, but my God, my Savior and as far as I'm concerned He is my everything.

Yes I have failed Him beyond miserably, yet I know that He loves me in spite of my sins - past present and future.​

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.​

HankD

 

[ReformedBaptist]

And how many of us can honestly say they have done this?

Do we really hate our parents? Wife?, children, your own life?
It says hate not "love less".

I also notice that in verse 33 Jesus did not say "you must be willing to forsake all" but that you actually must forsake all.

Who of us here has done that and if you have, how is it you have a computer?

Do you have a home? a car? a bank account, a retirement plan, Insurance policies, etc, etc, etc, here in the most affluent nation on earth?

I guess we are all doomed like the rich young ruler who balked at the Lord's requirement to forsake all.

Can we at least be men and women enough to say we haven't forsaken all? I haven't.

However, I can say this :Jesus Christ is not only my Lord, but my God, my Savior and as far as I'm concerned He is my everything.

Yes I have failed Him beyond miserably, yet I know that He loves me in spite of my sins - past present and future.​

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.​

HankD

Hank,

I think you have misunderstood the passage in their application. But I am not going to belabor that with you.

Yes, I can say with a clear conscience I have forsaken all to follow Jesus, even while I type it out on my computer. :laugh:

 

[pinoybaptist]

Jarth,

The man is obscessed! He just started yet ANOTHER thread on the same thing. lol

He reminds me of a spoiled brat kid who cannot accept that he is capable of tripping, even in front of others.
That kind of kid will get up and push another kid in the crowd who had nothing at all to do with his tripping but just happened to be there.
Truth to tell, as far as I can see, his gripe is not really with the Lordship issue more than the fact that MacArthur is a Calvinist.
It is Calvinism he hates, not the Lordship of Christ, which he knows is inevitable if one is really a believer.

 

[skypair]

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works

It is GOD working in us. no?

We are His "workmanship" after we are saved -- not unto salvation. Do you agree with that? Prior to that we are a) our own workmandhip, or b) Satan's (Pharisees, etal.), or c) we don't have the capacity to be anyone's workmanship (infants, mentally challenged, etc.).

So now the critical question comes, "Were we saved by our own 'workmanship?'" I believe that if we call "saving faith, repentance, commitment, and obedience" "divine works of the Spirit," we still must say that He only PERSUADES us to do them.

And if they together constitute "saving faith" (which I believe they do), then 1) to be saving eternally (justification of the soul) they must come before salvation and 2) to save temporally (sanctification of the spirit) they must come before spiritual growth can occur.

Now the objection to JM is this -- as a Calvinist, he will gladly aver that God working in us causes us to do works is required for "spiritual growth salvation" but he will "deny to the death" that God works in us in the same way (persuasion) to do works of "saving faith" unto eternal life.

Even faith in Christ if it is not applied as the Bible teaches is not saving faith. JWs say they have faith/believe in Christ. What is the meaning of that faith? It must be as the Bible say, not as man wants.

I agree, James. The "saving faith" JM talks about leads to salvation of the spirit now but not to salvation of the soul and spirit (since the spirit goes with the soul) in eternity.

Here's a way to look at that last remark -- the spirit can go to heaven eternally with the saved soul because Christ died for all sin of the flesh and spirit. But the spirit cannot go to heaven with the unbelieving soul because the unbelieving soul has never reconciled its relationship to God -- been "reborn." Now this is the salvation I'm talking about ... for men to positively, of their own accord/spirit/choice, claim Christ for the ETERNAL aspect of His sacrifice and for the Lordship of His wisdom over ours in our souls/consciences is, to me, saving faith.

then why do you mislead others as Lou does, and want them to believe Mac is saying something about works salvation?

And so my objection to JM is that 1) like all good Calvies, he takes no account of the soul and how it "must be saved" and 2) instead concerns himself with the salvation of the spirit of man (the only aspect of man that he acknowledges) which he says MUST "work." Do you see what I'm saying? I do believe that JM has it right about works playing a part in salvation. But because he knows nothing of the soul, he assumes the "total spiritual aspect of man" to be "elect"/saved/"regenerated" without works/choice/saving faith generated within man. Indeed, it can be said that the whole crux of the falling out between free will and Calvies is this issue of "is there a distinct soul and how is it saved?"* Because 1Thes 5:23 affirms there are both soul and spirit and Heb 4:12 tells us they can be "divided asunder" by the word of God as to their "seeing" or "hearing" of the word.

*Ans: Same way the spirit is saved progressively, the soul is saved instantly and eternally -- we choose God's gospel truth from among the many options available.

skypair

 

[HankD]

Hank,

I think you have misunderstood the passage in their application. But I am not going to belabor that with you.

Yes, I can say with a clear conscience I have forsaken all to follow Jesus, even while I type it out on my computer. :laugh:

Yes brother, I suspected that you were making a case.

However, it is not clear exactly what you meant by "forsake all" and for whom it was meant, and that it could have caused confusion in the minds of others as well as me.

It's all about His love for us and not our performance.

HankD

 

[skypair]

Lou,

Perhaps you could learn from my post just above this one to JArthur.

The primary deficiency of LS and Calvinism is they are not concerned with the eternal salvation of the SOUL. They say they are but they don't know what the soul is. Their theology and sotierology excludes it from consideration.

The ideal thing for them to see would be that, in the same way JM says that LS "saves" them spiritually --- that is the way that God saves their souls eternally. But since the soul to them is "invisible," so is the process of its salvation such that they assume that God has somehow (they don't know how God chose them)"given" it to them to be saved in eternity as a free gift.

Instead, salvation is something that must be "found" and "chosen" in order to "have." Rev 3:18, 20 is a good example. "uy of Me gold..." means come to Christ and find wisdom. "...and white raiment,..." means receive from Christ eternal salvation in heaven. "...and eyesalve..." means now Christ will lead you into all spiritual truth. And then in verse 20 is the "invitation" -- I/Jesus am "knocking;" YOU, please "open" the "door." If YOU do have saving faith/repent/commit/obey, I/Christ will come in and "sup with YOU and YOu with Me." Same way JM and LS say we receive salvation of the spirit is how we must receive it in the SOUL.

Perhaps on that note, you could redirect your own assertions about LS and JM, eh?:jesus:

skypair

 

[Jarthur001]

The primary deficiency of LS and Calvinism is they are not concerned with the eternal salvation of the SOUL. They say they are but they don't know what the soul is. Their theology and sotierology excludes it from consideration.

Sky,

What gives you the right to say Calvinist do not know what the soul is?

You need to prove your remark or recant

 

[skypair]

Sky,

What gives you the right to say Calvinist do not know what the soul is?

You need to prove your remark or recant

Ha, ha! :laugh: That is your response to my post??? You don't disprove my assertions in any way but instead tell me to prove my remarks when my remarks cite scriptural proof (1Thes 5:23, Heb 4:12)??

Sir, you are very much "up the proverbial creek without a paddle!" :laugh:

I notice that none of you Calvinists very much like to consider my argument that there even is a soul that "surely dies" on account of sin. I notice that none of you likes to think that the spirit of man (intellect, emotions, and will) is very much "alive" nonetheless! Y'all NEVER engage on these threads where I point out the distinction. And you know why? You have not been programmed to respond to the biblical paradigm of the human nature!

Human nature is not about TOTAL depravity -- it's not about no conditions to salvation -- it's not about grace being "irresistible" to only certain people -- and it's not about YOUR perseverance but about God's PRESERVATION of your soul!!!

[Offensive statement removed]

skypair

 

[Jarthur001]

Ha, ha! :laugh: That is your response to my post??? You don't disprove my assertions in any way but instead tell me to prove my remarks when my remarks cite scriptural proof (1Thes 5:23, Heb 4:12)??

Sir, you are very much "up the proverbial creek without a paddle!" :laugh:

I notice that none of you Calvinists very much like to consider my argument that there even is a soul that "surely dies" on account of sin. I notice that none of you likes to think that the spirit of man (intellect, emotions, and will) is very much "alive" nonetheless! Y'all NEVER engage on these threads where I point out the distinction. And you know why? You have not been programmed to respond to the biblical paradigm of the human nature!

Human nature is not about TOTAL depravity -- it's not about no conditions to salvation -- it's not about grace being "irresistible" to only certain people -- and it's not about YOUR perseverance but about God's PRESERVATION of your soul!!!

You're having to cover the deficiencies of the Calvinism you follow so often that you look like "one-legged men in a butt kicking contest!" :laugh: If you give up the "leg you stand on," you got NOTHING!!

skypair

To tell you the truth Sky, I didn't even read most of your post.

Do not be so foolish to think I have nothing to say.

Will you recant or will you prove your words.

This must be addressed before we go on.

 

[Jarthur001]

We are His "workmanship" after we are saved -- not unto salvation. Do you agree with that?

NO...we have been over this before. You know good well what the Bible says.

Prior to that we are a) our own workmandhip,

In one way. We wish to follow our will and do so. However, God is still in control and at no time does God loss control.

or c) we don't have the capacity to be anyone's workmanship (infants, mentally challenged, etc.).

God gives to all just as he wills. You are not smarter, (if you are smart) on your own.God gave you your IQ and you cannot change this.

So now the critical question comes, "Were we saved by our own 'workmanship?'

"
NO

I believe that if we call "saving faith, repentance, commitment, and obedience" "divine works of the Spirit," we still must say that He only PERSUADES us to do them

.
Then you believe wrong.

And if they together constitute "saving faith" (which I believe they do), then 1) to be saving eternally (justification of the soul) they must come before salvation and 2) to save temporally (sanctification of the spirit) they must come before spiritual growth can occur.

Nothing but mans logic. I'll stick to the Bible rather then a wild idea.

Now the objection to JM is this -- as a Calvinist, he will gladly aver that God working in us causes us to do works is required for "spiritual growth salvation"

No he would not. We are holy (set-apart) from the new birth on. We cannot get any more holy then we are now. However, many do not WALK in that holiness.

Please see this weeks column.
http://www.lincolnstandard.com/main.asp?SectionID=26&SubsectionID=26&ArticleID=3770&TM=69010.06


You will find this.....

Paul says that true holiness, which comes from God, is always God-oriented.


Romans 10
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.


Israel had imagined that holiness was something that could be graded. We do this today don’t we? When we become self-holy and not reply on God-given holiness, we look at others to see where our holiness ranks. We see criminals, perverts, habitual liars as low on that scale. The pretty good people may rank closer to the middle of the scale. Then we have those people that always seem to do the right thing no matter what. We place these very high on the scale with God being the only perfect mark.


This is what Israel had done and what we have a tendency to do. But this does not reflect the biblical idea of holiness. We can get a better understanding of the word holiness when we look at the word saint. A saint is not a person that has achieved a certain level of goodness, but rather one that is “set apart” for God. This word, saint, is used of all Christians. They are the “called out ones” who make up the church.
Now notice in the very chapter we are looking at, verse 19


19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.


Jesus is not praying to be more holy, for He was already holy. Instead it means that He separated himself for a special task, the task of providing salvation for people by his death. If holiness is to be understood it must be seen in this framework.


But if we are holy why does Christ pray for our sanctification?


We are holy, set apart from the world and we can never be more holy than we are now. But often times we do not take advantage of that holiness. The non-believer lives in sin, for he is in the world and not set apart as are the saints. We the saints, have power over sin, but at times we do not take advantage of that power. The non-believer is not set apart to know God. We the saints, can know God better, but we do not take advantage of God’s holy book and read it.


Your church can have the wrong view of holiness and it will destroy the message of the gospel. You will look down at others that do not follow your rules. You will produce self-holy people and not people showing the holiness of God. The gospel is not like this at all.


Christ came to save sinners and you are a sinner. Your level of goodness is nothing in God’s eyes. Your church needs only to take advantage of the holiness that Christ has given each saint.


Theologian RC Ryle wrote…
I have no desire to make an idol of holiness. I do not wish to dethrone Christ and put holiness in His place. But I must candidly say I wish sanctification was more thought of in this day than it seems to be, and I therefore take occasion to press the subject on all believers into whose hands these pages may fall. I fear it is sometimes forgotten that God has married together justification and sanctification. They are distinct and different things, beyond question; but one is never found without the other. All justified people are sanctified, and all sanctified are justified. What God has joined together let no man dare to put asunder. Tell me not of your justification unless you have also some marks of sanctification. Boast not of Christ’s work for you unless you can show us the Spirit’s work in you. Do not think that Christ and the Spirit can ever be divided. I do not doubt that many believers know these things, but I think it good for us to be put in remembrance of them. Let us prove that we know them by our lives.

And so my objection to JM is that 1) like all good Calvies, he takes no account of the soul and how it "must be saved"

This is foolish and you need to prove MacArthur does not know that a soul must be saved

and 2) instead concerns himself with the salvation of the spirit of man (the only aspect of man that he acknowledges) which he says MUST "work."

You show me one place why MacArthur says we must work for salvation. If you have nothing recant.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Yes...its pure folly.

I do believe that JM has it right about works playing a part in salvation.

You may say this but MacArthur says we are saved by grace and grace alone. You need to read his books, not guess.



The rest is a waste of time.

 

[Lou Martuneac]

The primary deficiency of LS and Calvinism is they are not concerned with the eternal salvation of the SOUL. They say they are but they don't know what the soul is. Their theology and sotierology excludes it from consideration... . Perhaps on that note, you could redirect your own assertions about LS and JM, eh?

I appreciate what you are sharing, but it is too late and I am too tied to work through it.

I began this thread with the question, Must a lost man "forsake sin" FOR salvation?

“The gospel call of Jesus was a call to forsake sin as much as it was a summons to believe in Him. It was a call to turn from sin. From His first message to His last, the Savior’s theme was calling sinners to turn from their sin, to embrace God, to pursue righteousness. It was not only that they had a new perspective on who He was, but that they turn from sin to follow Him.” (John MacArthur: The Call to Repentance, Part 3 from the four sermon series on the Lordship of Christ.)

In his sermon John MacArthur speaks of the Gospel. Any responsible Bible-believing Christian understands that the Gospel is the "good news" of salvation from sin, death and Hell. The Gospel is God’s redemptive plan for the lost.

The Gospel call of Jesus, according to John MacArthur, calls on the lost to “forsake sin, turn from sin, and pursue righteousness.” The Gospel FOR salvation, as defined MacArthur, equates a change in behavior as co-equal with believing.

"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house," (Acts 16:31) Is salvation through believeing or behaving? The lost are born again by believing in who Jesus is and what He did to provide salvation. LS adds a commitment to behave as one might expect a born again disciple of Christ should once he has believed and become a Christian.

This is a message that conditions eternal salvation on the lost man making a commitment to “forsake” (stop) sinning, start obeying and keep obeying over a life time. That is WORKS salvation! Lordship Salvation is a corruption of the “simplicity that is in Christ,” (2 Cor. 11:3).


LM

 

[Jarthur001]

I appreciate what you are sharing, but it is too late and I am too tied to work through it.

I began this thread with the question, Must a lost man "forsake sin" FOR salvation?


In his sermon John MacArthur speaks of the Gospel. Any responsible Bible-believing Christian understands that the Gospel is the "good news" of salvation from sin, death and Hell. The Gospel is God’s redemptive plan for the lost.

The Gospel call of Jesus, according to John MacArthur, calls on the lost to “forsake sin, turn from sin, and pursue righteousness.” The Gospel FOR salvation, as defined MacArthur, equates a change in behavior as co-equal with believing.

"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house," (Acts 16:31) Is salvation through believeing or behaving? The lost are born again by believing in who Jesus is and what He did to provide salvation. LS adds a commitment to behave as one might expect a born again disciple of Christ should once he has believed and become a Christian.

This is a message that conditions eternal salvation on the lost man making a commitment to “forsake” (stop) sinning, start obeying and keep obeying over a life time. That is WORKS salvation! Lordship Salvation is a corruption of the “simplicity that is in Christ,” (2 Cor. 11:3).


LM

Let me once again remind Lou what MacArthur is saying. Easy-believe systems centers around being saved from hell. It is asked who would like to be saved from going to hell. We are saved from sin that places us in hell. MacArthur is saying that when we are saved out goal is to be saved from sin...to forsake sin. He never..Never..NEVER says one must stop sinning to be saved. NEVER. He never says one must work their way to salvation. NEVER!!!

Others please forgive me as I post this once again, but Lou does not seem to get it. ..

MacArthur says...

"Let me say as clearly as possible right now that salvation is by God's sovereign grace and grace alone. Nothing a lost, degenerate, spiritually dead sinner can do will in any way contribute to salvation. Saving faith, repentance, commitment, and obedience are all divine works, wrought by the Holy Spirit in the heart of everyone who is saved. . . . Real salvation cannot and will not fail to produce works of righteousness in the life of a true believer" (p. xiii.)

Paul says we are to walk in the gospel...

Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

He also says we WILL bring forth fruit
Col 1:5-6
For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

 

[convicted1]

Luk 18:28 Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.


Luk 18:29 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,


Luk 18:30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

"According to this passage of scripture, Jesus told His disciples that they would be rewarded for "forsaking" their own lives, to follow Him. We have to drop everything, if we are to be saved." Quotation marks my emphasis.


Luk 13:1 ¶ There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.


Luk 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?


Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.


Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?


Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

"You have to REPENT of your sins to be saved!! If you repent of your sins, don't you have to "forsake" them? "

Mar 2:17 When Jesus heard [it], he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

2Cr 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Cr 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


Willis

 

[Jarthur001]

"According to this passage of scripture, Jesus told His disciples that they would be rewarded for "forsaking" their own lives, to follow Him. We have to drop everything, if we are to be saved." Quotation marks my emphasis.

I would say it like this...

We must have the desire to leave all, including our sin, behind us as we ask God to save us from our sin.

Now, somethings we may not even know is sin at the time of our salvation. But with this desire to be free from sin, as God works in us and shows us sins we need to remove, we act on those

"You have to REPENT of your sins to be saved!! If you repent of your sins, don't you have to "forsake" them? "

Indeed you are right.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

"You have to REPENT of your sins to be saved!! If you repent of your sins, don't you have to "forsake" them? "

Very true. And this is the impression so far I have from the so-called No Lord camp. They are stripping repentance from the Gospel, setting up a different Gospel, which is not another, but it is perverted, and subsequently setting up a strawman "Lordship Salvation" and defeating it.

Just my impression so far...

 

[skypair]

Will you recant or will you prove your words.

This must be addressed before we go on.

"Well, ya got me there, pardna," cause how does one make an argument where Calvinism is SILENT??

skypair

 

[skypair]

God gives to all just as he wills. You are not smarter, (if you are smart) on your own. God gave you your IQ and you cannot change this.

Wow!! A man who doesn't believe in spiritual growth!! in Eph 4:14-16!!

No he would not. We are holy (set-apart) from the new birth on. We cannot get any more holy then we are now. However, many do not WALK in that holiness.

We are "indwelt" by the Holy Spirit from the new birth is, I think, what you meant to say. And, yeah, we can't get any more of Him than we do at the new birth. But sanctification is actually progressively setting apart the flesh to God and we can always "do" more of that.

This is foolish and you need to prove MacArthur does not know that a soul must be saved.

How do I prove something about JM when JM is silent about it? Does silence convince you of his ignorance? How about that if he mentions the word "soul," he shows no knowledge of what the soul is? what it function is?

Thank you for "wasting your time," then. It wouldn't be a waste of time if you realized that it is your soul in jeopardy.

skypair

 

[EdSutton]

For whomever made or copied this quote:

Theologian RC Ryle wrote…
I have no desire to make an idol of holiness. I do not wish to dethrone Christ and put holiness in His place. But I must candidly say I wish sanctification was more thought of in this day than it seems to be, and I therefore take occasion to press the subject on all believers into whose hands these pages may fall. I fear it is sometimes forgotten that God has married together justification and sanctification. They are distinct and different things, beyond question; but one is never found without the other. All justified people are sanctified, and all sanctified are justified. What God has joined together let no man dare to put asunder. Tell me not of your justification unless you have also some marks of sanctification. Boast not of Christ’s work for you unless you can show us the Spirit’s work in you. Do not think that Christ and the Spirit can ever be divided. I do not doubt that many believers know these things, but I think it good for us to be put in remembrance of them. Let us prove that we know them by our lives.

FTR, to my knowledge, there is no 'theologian' named RC Ryle. The only person by that name I found with a quick search, possibly may have authored one book titled Home Truths, and even this is questionable, IMO. (No James Ryle, either, although I saw that misidentification on the Internet, as well.)

I suspect the 'source' of the quote meant the late English Bishop John Charles (J.C.) Ryle, who was a well known theologian of the last part of the 19th Century. I strongly suspect this is also the individual who authored Home Truths, as well. The quote is likely from Ryle's well known work titled Holiness, from which it seems consistent, as well.

It's R. C. Sproul but J. C. Ryle for today's wannabe' theologians.

Ed

P.S. Yes, I 'quibble' over names, for I think if one intends to cite them, one should at least, get them right!