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"Forsake sin" FOR Salvation?

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Brother Bob said:
Seems to me if you are guilty of one, you are guilty of all, would mean that you had to repent of all, if you were still guilty of even "one" of them, you would still be guilty of all of them, so why repent of just some of them at all?

BBob,
Your statement shows your lack of understanding of repentance.
However, I was specifically speaking of repentance in reference to salvation.
Tell me Bob: If Reformed Baptist doesn't mind, I will use him as an example. He testified that he got saved at the age of 20. (Perhaps he has a better memory than me). If he uses your definition of repentance, would he have been able to call to mind every sin that he had ever committed for the past 20 years and confessed each one and repented of each. That is what it means to "repent of all your sins and be saved." It is an unbiblical teaching. It is impossible to do. Why teach something that is impossible for the unsaved person to do?
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
DHK said:
That is what it means to "repent of all your sins and be saved." It is an unbiblical teaching. It is impossible to do. Why teach something that is impossible for the unsaved person to do?

No it is not what it means.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Revmitchell said:
No it is not what it means.
Repent of all your sins.
Then what does it mean? Count up all my sins and repent of each one of them individually. Don't you believe in a literal interpretation? Mean what say, and say what you mean? The trouble with today's preachers is that they fail to use biblical terms, and when they do, they fail to define them in a biblical way.
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
DHK said:
Repent of all your sins.
Then what does it mean? Count up all my sins and repent of each one of them individually. Don't you believe in a literal interpretation? Mean what say, and say what you mean? The trouble with today's preachers is that they fail to use biblical terms, and when they do, they fail to define them in a biblical way.

Repent from rebellion against God. Repent from a sinnful lifestyle. The trouble with Christians today is they have lost site of what true repentance and worship is.
 
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ReformedBaptist

Well-Known Member
DHK said:
Repent of all your sins.
Then what does it mean? Count up all my sins and repent of each one of them individually. Don't you believe in a literal interpretation? Mean what say, and say what you mean? The trouble with today's preachers is that they fail to use biblical terms, and when they do, they fail to define them in a biblical way.

What is unbiblical about this...(LBCF)

Chapter 15: Of Repentance Unto Life and Salvation
1._____ Such of the elect as are converted at riper years, having sometime lived in the state of nature, and therein served divers lusts and pleasures, God in their effectual calling giveth them repentance unto life. ( Titus 3:2-5 )

2._____ Whereas there is none that doth good and sinneth not, and the best of men may, through the power and deceitfulness of their corruption dwelling in them, with the prevalency of temptation, fall into great sins and provocations; God hath, in the covenant of grace, mercifully provided that believers so sinning and falling be renewed through repentance unto salvation.
( Ecclesiastes 7:20; Luke 22:31, 32 )

3._____ This saving repentance is an evangelical grace, whereby a person, being by the Holy Spirit made sensible of the manifold evils of his sin, doth, by faith in Christ, humble himself for it with godly sorrow, detestation of it, and self-abhorrency, praying for pardon and strength of grace, with a purpose and endeavour, by supplies of the Spirit, to walk before God unto all well-pleasing in all things.
( Zechariah 12:10; Acts 11:18; Ezekiel 36:31; 2 Corinthians 7:11; Psalms 119:6; Psalms 119:128 )

4._____ As repentance is to be continued through the whole course of our lives, upon the account of the body of death, and the motions thereof, so it is every man's duty to repent of his particular known sins particularly.
( Luke 19:8; 1 Timothy 1:13, 15 )

5._____ Such is the provision which God hath made through Christ in the covenant of grace for the preservation of believers unto salvation; that although there is no sin so small but it deserves damnation; yet there is no sin so great that it shall bring damnation on them that repent; which makes the constant preaching of repentance necessary.
( Romans 6:23; Isaiah 1:16-18 Isaiah 55:7 )


Or this (Westminster Confession)

Chapter XV
Of Repentance unto Life
I. Repentance unto life is an evangelical grace,[1] the doctrine whereof is to be preached by every minister of the Gospel, as well as that of faith in Christ.[2]

II. By it, a sinner, out of the sight and sense not only of the danger, but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins, as contrary to the holy nature, and righteous law of God; and upon the apprehension of His mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for, and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God,[3] purposing and endeavouring to walk with Him in all the ways of His commandments.[4]

III. Although repentance is not to be rested in, as any satisfaction for sin, or any cause of the pardon thereof,[5] which is the act of God's free grace in Christ,[6] yet it is of such necessity to all sinners, that none may expect pardon without it.[7]

IV. As there is no sin so small, but it deserves damnation;[8] so there is no sin so great, that it can bring damnation upon those who truly repent.[9]

V. Men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly.[10]

VI. As every man is bound to make private confession of his sins to God, praying for the pardon thereof;[11] upon which, and the forsaking of them, he shall find mercy;[12] so he that scandelizeth his brother, or the Church of Christ, ought to be willing, by a private or public confession and sorrow for his sin, to declare his repentance to those that are offended;[13] who are thereupon to be reconciled to him, and in love to receive him.[14]
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
ReformedBaptist said:
What is unbiblical about this...(LBCF)
As you know I am not a Calvinist. I disagree with much of what your Confession of Faith states.
Thus I only challenge you to use Scripture. I believe is sola scriptura, (not sola confessionala).
Where in the NT does it say: One must repent of all their sins to be saved?
Chapter and verse please.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Revmitchell said:
Repent from rebellion against God. Repent from a sinnful lifestyle. The trouble with Christians today is they have lost site of what true repentance and worship is.
The trouble here is that you are avoiding my original question and have not answered it yet.
 

Brother Bob

New Member
DHK said:
Your statement shows your lack of understanding of repentance.
However, I was specifically speaking of repentance in reference to salvation.
Tell me Bob: If Reformed Baptist doesn't mind, I will use him as an example. He testified that he got saved at the age of 20. (Perhaps he has a better memory than me). If he uses your definition of repentance, would he have been able to call to mind every sin that he had ever committed for the past 20 years and confessed each one and repented of each. That is what it means to "repent of all your sins and be saved." It is an unbiblical teaching. It is impossible to do. Why teach something that is impossible for the unsaved person to do?
It is not impossible, say "Lord, please forgive me of ALL my sins". Jesus made it simple, you make it hard.

My statement shows my lack of understanding is baloney. You are the one who always says, "if you guilty of one, you guilty of all". Live by your own words, or don't say them.

Strange how your own words turn around and bite you..........:wavey:

BBob,
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Brother Bob said:
It is not impossible, say "Lord, please forgive me of ALL my sins". Jesus made it simple, you make it hard.

My statement shows my lack of understanding is baloney. You are the one who always says, "if you guilty of one, you guilty of all". Live by your own words, or don't say them.

Strange how your own words turn around and bite you..........:wavey:

BBob,
Again you also avoid my question.
Where in the NT does it say one must repent of all their sins to be saved.
This is an unbiblical theology, if not heresy.
The Bible teaches no such thing. If it does give me chapter and verse, not convoluted opinion.
 

Brother Bob

New Member
DHK said:
Again you also avoid my question.
Where in the NT does it say one must repent of all their sins to be saved.
This is an unbiblical theology, if not heresy.
The Bible teaches no such thing. If it does give me chapter and verse, not convoluted opinion.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
--If you are perfect for all your life and only sin once--just one little lie, then you are just as guilty as if you had broken all the law all your life.
A liar will stand before God just as guilty as a murderer. There is no difference between their sins. Sin is sin.
DHK;
If you believe what you posted above, then how could it be possible to be forgiven for all sins, but one and be saved? According to you, you would still be guilty of all.

Here you say, to not be forgiven in "one point" you are guilty of all. These are your words, not mine.

Are you taking a different stance now, or just this thread??

BBob
 
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Pilgrimer

Member
Lou Martuneac said:
Pilgrimer:

The works based message of JM's Lordship Salvation is not negated by the extra-biblical presupposition that regeneration precedes repentance and faith. The Bible does not teach that lost men are regenerated (born again) prior to and apart from personal faith in Christ.

I agree and I cannot help but wonder where anyone would get the idea that the unrepentant sinner can be joined with Christ without first being cleansed of his sin . . . "washed in the blood" as the old Baptist hymns go.

The Temple of the Old Covenant and all it's furnishings and vessels of ministry had to be sprinkled with blood to purge and purify them that God might dwell there. That was a type of the Temple of the New Testament, which temple we are. In like manner we too must be cleansed, purged, purified of our sin by the blood of Christ in order for Jesus to dwell in us.

"Moreover, (Moses) sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of ministry. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood there is no remission . . . How much more shall the blood of Christ . . . purge your conscience from dead works to serve a living God?" Hebrews 9:21-22, 9:14

This purging and cleansing of sin (atonement) by the blood of Christ is what true, Godly repentance is all about, which is why repentance must preceed the regenerating presence of the Spirit. It seems maybe some have only made it to the first stage of salvation, that of conviction. But they have rested there rather than continuing on through the valley of repentance and coming out the other side born again. It is, I believe, the weakness of the Baptist doctrine that one is taught that the Sinner's Prayer and Baptism are the sum total of the new birth experience and that in those two elements all is accomplished at once. For me, the new birth came two years after my confession of faith and baptism. The intervening years were the most difficult of my life and can best be summed up in the Publican's Prayer . . .

"And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, crying, God be merciful to me a sinner." Luke 18:13

That is the Biblical example of true, Godly repentance. To open and pour out our hearts in lamentation of our dire condition and throw ourselves on the mercy of God trusting in the blood of Christ to make us acceptable to God. Only then are we fit to receive the cure for death . . . the Spirit of Christ, who is Life.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Pilgrimer said:
"And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, crying, God be merciful to me a sinner." Luke 18:13

That is the Biblical example of true, Godly repentance. To open and pour out our hearts in lamentation of our dire condition and throw ourselves on the mercy of God trusting in the blood of Christ to make us acceptable to God. Only then are we fit to receive the cure for death . . . the Spirit of Christ, who is Life.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

And this is the whole crux of what is being called LS.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Brother Bob said:
If you believe what you posted above, then how could it be possible to be forgiven for all sins, but one and be saved? According to you, you would still be guilty of all.

Here you say, to not be forgiven in "one point" you are guilty of all. These are your words, not mine.

Are you taking a different stance now, or just this thread??

BBob
I am waiting for an honest answer from you. It was a simple question. Why do you have such a hard time answering it? Quit beating around the bush. You are acting like a J.W. Just answer the question.
 

Brother Bob

New Member
DHK said:
I am waiting for an honest answer from you. It was a simple question. Why do you have such a hard time answering it? Quit beating around the bush. You are acting like a J.W. Just answer the question.
All the statements are your, so the question is too you??

Didn't think you could answer it anyway, how can you have it both ways. Forgiveness for part of your sins, and if you guilty of one, then you are guilty of all. You own words chopped you off at the knees.

BBob,
 

Brother Bob

New Member
DHK said:
Your statement shows your lack of understanding of repentance.
However, I was specifically speaking of repentance in reference to salvation.
Tell me Bob: If Reformed Baptist doesn't mind, I will use him as an example. He testified that he got saved at the age of 20. (Perhaps he has a better memory than me). If he uses your definition of repentance, would he have been able to call to mind every sin that he had ever committed for the past 20 years and confessed each one and repented of each. That is what it means to "repent of all your sins and be saved." It is an unbiblical teaching. It is impossible to do. Why teach something that is impossible for the unsaved person to do?
Those are your words, not mine. Give your own answer. I said, he could ask for forgiveness for all his sins. God is the one who knows all our sins. No problem whatsoever, unless you do not believe in an Omniscience God?

Do you believe in an Omiscience God DHK?????

Hope this is not too complicated for you.............

BBob,
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Brother Bob said:
Those are your words, not mine. Give your own answer. I said, he could ask for forgiveness for all his sins. God is the one who knows all our sins. No problem whatsoever, unless you do not believe in an Omniscience God?

Do you believe in an Omiscience God DHK?????

Hope this is not too complicated for you.............

BBob,
Is it possible for him to have remembered all the sins he committed in those 20 years Bob. The question is not about God.
The question comes from man's made up theology: "Repent of all your sins and be saved."
If he is to do that then he must remember his sins first before he can repent of them. This is not about God's memory. It is about the person who needs to repent. Can that person remember all the sins he needs to repent of? Yes or no?
In the example I gave you (of RB), would that have been possible?
Why do you not answer my questions Bob. Stop playing games.
 

Lou Martuneac

New Member
DHK said:
Is it possible for him to have remembered all the sins he committed in those 20 years Bob. The question is not about God.
The question comes from man's made up theology: "Repent of all your sins and be saved."
If he is to do that then he must remember his sins first before he can repent of them. This is not about God's memory. It is about the person who needs to repent. Can that person remember all the sins he needs to repent of? Yes or no?
In the example I gave you (of RB), would that have been possible?
Why do you not answer my questions Bob. Stop playing games.
DHK:

I can appreciate your frustration with men who duck and dodge questions that expose the errors in their teaching. They will refuse to answer, redefine your questions, answer a question with a question, anything, but give a clear, unvarnished answer to a simple question when the answer will lay bare the egergious errors of their system.


LM
 

Brother Bob

New Member
Lou Martuneac said:
DHK:

I can appreciate your frustration with men who duck and dodge questions that expose the errors in their teaching. They will refuse to answer, redefine your questions, answer a question with a question, anything, but give a clear, unvarnished answer to a simple question when the answer will lay bare the egergious errors of their system.

Now that is a mouthfull. Please enlighten me so I will know also what the question is, if you know, or are you just making remarks. I went back and read twice to try and see what the question is, but can't find it. I answered everything I saw. LM, do you believe in an Omniscience God, who knows all our sins before we even ask for forgiveness??? Show me in scripture where you must remember each and ever sin you have committed since birth???


LM

Now this is all fine and dandy, but what is the question. I am not dancing around anything.

You answer the question LM, if you ask God to forgive you of "All" your sins, then surely God knows what they are, He keeps the record. I have not kept no record of my sins, have you??? Being you stepped into this discussion between me and DHK. If you are guilty in one point, then you guilty in all, so how does repenting of just some of your sins, cover them all. Come on LM, help us that are in the errors of our ways. Show me the light!!!

Please do expose the errors of my teaching. I would be very interested.

BBob,
 
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webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
I agree and I cannot help but wonder where anyone would get the idea that the unrepentant sinner can be joined with Christ without first being cleansed of his sin . . . "washed in the blood" as the old Baptist hymns go.
If an unrepentant sinner has been cleansed of his sin before he comes to Christ...what is the point of coming to Christ? We are cleansed of our sin WHEN we are joined to Christ through faith.
 

Lou Martuneac

New Member
Pilgrimer:

I wrote,
The works based message of JM's Lordship Salvation is not negated by the extra-biblical presupposition that regeneration precedes repentance and faith. The Bible does not teach that lost men are regenerated (born again) prior to and apart from personal faith in Christ.”
You opened a reply with,
I agree and I cannot help but wonder where anyone would get the idea that the unrepentant sinner can be joined with Christ without first being cleansed of his sin . . . "washed in the blood" as the old Baptist hymns go.”
No unrepentant sinner can be born again. In the Lordship debates only Zane Hodges, Bob Wilkin and the GES teach such obvious heresy. Hodges removes repentance entirely from conversion/salvation.
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, crying, God be merciful to me a sinner,” (Luke 18:13).
He repented toward God. Sorrow produces repentance, but repentance is not sorrow for sin. Esau (Hebrews 12:16-17) wept over what he had lost, but “found no place of repentance.” The Roman Catholic can feel or express sorrow for sin, do penance for sin, but that is not repentance to salvation. Man may sorrow and not repent. Sorrow may, however, lead to repentance as with the Corinthians.

The publican repented, we know that because Jesus said, “this man went down to his house justified.” He was not justified because of sorrow, he was justified because he repented.

Final Note: We do not read anything about his committing to "forsake sin." LS advocates must find this man's repentance incomplete because there is no commitment to better behavior.


LM
 
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