"Forsake sin" FOR Salvation?

[Lou Martuneac]

Brother Bob:

I looked back and find that DHK asked you this question, "Where in the NT does it say one must repent of all their sins to be saved."

Let's start with your answer to that question, which I will try to expand for you to respond to:

1) Must a lost man repent of all his sins to be saved?
2) Must he know and remember all his sins to repent of all of them to be saved?

I say, no he does not. The publican standing afar off (Luke 18:13) is a Bible example of this.

In any event, DHK is asking you to answer that question, so give him an answer and you all can then move on.


LM

 

[Brother Bob]

Brother Bob:

I looked back and find that DHK asked you this question, "Where in the NT does it say one must repent of all their sins to be saved."

Let's start with your answer to that question, which I will try to expand for you to respond to:

1) Must a lost man repent of all his sins to be saved?
2) Must he know and remember all his sins to repent of all of them to be saved?

I say, no he does not. The publican standing afar off (Luke 18:13) is a Bible example of this.

In any event, DHK is asking you to answer that question, so give him an answer and you all can then move on.


LM

I have told him over and over:

Luk 13:3I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

He says what scripture says, if you are guilty in one point ye are guilty of all. So that does not leave any room to not repent of each and every sin.

Yes, I have also told him that God has the record, and knows all sins we committed.

No, you do not have to remember each and every one, just ask God to forgive you of your sins.

Hope that is not to bad in error.

BBob,

 

[Pilgrimer]

Pilgrimer:

No unrepentant sinner can be born again.

It would be interesting to know what their view is on being born again, exactly what they take that to mean. It would perhaps explain what they are thinking. If the new birth is that moment when the Spirit comes down like rain from heaven and gives life to a dead man walking, I like the term spiritual awakening from the verse, "Awake thou that sleepest, arise from the dead; and Christ will give thee light," but anyway, if they are speaking of the spiritual regeneration of those of who were dead in their sins being raised to life, then that absolutely requires remission of sin, before ever we can step into the presence of God. In a slightly different context Paul spoke of it: "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; and having an high priest over the house of God; let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water."

I think that passage makes it clear that we must first be sprinkled and washed before we can draw near to God. Which makes sense to me. God is a Holy God, a consuming fire, and the only way a sinful, mortal creature such as we are can withstand the brightness of God's Presence is that we are covered by the blood of Christ.

Another pertinent passage:

"Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision." Romans 4:7-10

It seems to me that trying to insist on regeneration before faith is very much like trying to insist on circumcision before faith.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[ReformedBaptist]

It seems to me that trying to insist on regeneration before faith is very much like trying to insist on circumcision before faith.

Doesn't baptism correspond to circumcision?

 

[DHK]

I have told him over and over:

Luk 13:3I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

He says what scripture says, if you are guilty in one point ye are guilty of all. So that does not leave any room to not repent of each and every sin.

Yes, I have also told him that God has the record, and knows all sins we committed.

No, you do not have to remember each and every one, just ask God to forgive you of your sins.

Hope that is not to bad in error.

BBob,

Herein is the problem Bob. You say:
"No, you do not have to remember each and every one, just ask God to forgive you of your sins."

In relation to repentance or even salvation this is a false doctrine.
It is a false view of repentance in view of salvation.
No man can repent of all their sins; it is an impossibility, as I think you will now concede.
So now you want to lump them all into one large cesspool and ask God to forgive them all. Why? and why should God do that for you?
God demands repentance; he doesn't want you to ask for forgiveness (as an unbeliever).

Repentance is a change of attitude in respect to God's authority.
Once I was rebellious to God's authority; now I accept him as my authority.
My attitude has been changed. It has been changed 100%. It is a complete change, a turn around, going the opposite direction.
That is why the Bible says:

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
--Note that repentance is toward God. It is a change of direction.

Here in an anecdotal story that helps one to understand:
An old Methodist preacher was preaching a sermon on repentance. But it was in high and lofty language. He was well educated and spoke a nice flowery message that the people couldn't understand. At the end of the message a wise old deacon came up and asked the preacher if he could say a few short words. He was granted permission.
He said: "Folks this is what repentance is:"
And he started walking down the aisle toward the back all the while shouting: "I'm going to Hell! I'm going to Hell! I'm going to Hell! I'm going to Hell...
When he got to the back of the church, he turned around and proceeded to the front of the church all the while yelling:
"I'm going to heaven! I'm going to heaven! I'm going to heaven! I'm going to heaven...
When he reached the front, he said: "Folks that's what repentance is--a change of direction.

 

[Brother Bob]

Herein is the problem Bob. You say:
"No, you do not have to remember each and every one, just ask God to forgive you of your sins."

In relation to repentance or even salvation this is a false doctrine.
It is a false view of repentance in view of salvation.
No man can repent of all their sins; it is an impossibility, as I think you will now concede.
So now you want to lump them all into one large cesspool and ask God to forgive them all. Why? and why should God do that for you?
God demands repentance; he doesn't want you to ask for forgiveness (as an unbeliever).

Repentance is a change of attitude in respect to God's authority.
Once I was rebellious to God's authority; now I accept him as my authority.
My attitude has been changed. It has been changed 100%. It is a complete change, a turn around, going the opposite direction.
That is why the Bible says:

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
--Note that repentance is toward God. It is a change of direction.

Here in an anecdotal story that helps one to understand:
An old Methodist preacher was preaching a sermon on repentance. But it was in high and lofty language. He was well educated and spoke a nice flowery message that the people couldn't understand. At the end of the message a wise old deacon came up and asked the preacher if he could say a few short words. He was granted permission.
He said: "Folks this is what repentance is:"
And he started walking down the aisle toward the back all the while shouting: "I'm going to Hell! I'm going to Hell! I'm going to Hell! I'm going to Hell...
When he got to the back of the church, he turned around and proceeded to the front of the church all the while yelling:
"I'm going to heaven! I'm going to heaven! I'm going to heaven! I'm going to heaven...
When he reached the front, he said: "Folks that's what repentance is--a change of direction.

DHk; God bless you, but those are your words. who do you think has the record. Who do you think you sinned against. When you turn from sin, you turn from all sin and they are cast into a lake never to be remembered against you anymore. If God does not know what the sins are, then you are not guilty. You make things so hard, when God does all the work, you must believe and turn from sin, God will do the rest.

Good thing that preacher turned around don't you think?

BBob,

 

[DHK]

DHk; God bless you, but those are your words. who do you think has the record. Who do you think you sinned against. When you turn from sin, you turn from all sin and they are cast into a lake never to be remembered against you anymore. If God does not know what the sins are, then you are not guilty. You make things so hard, when God does all the work, you must believe and turn from sin, God will do the rest.

Good thing that preacher turned around don't you think?

BBob,

Bob, it seems as if you are confused.
Again, let me state. This is not about what God knows.
Yes, God knows what sins we have committed. He is omniscient. He knows all things. It is not about God. It is not God that needs to repent. It is man. This is not about God.
Your statement: "If God does not know what the sins are, then you are not guilty," is completely off base and is a red herring to this conversation. We are not discussing God's omniscience. We are discussing man's repentance toward God. Let's keep on track, alright?

Repentance is not about turning from sins or any particular sin.
Repentance is a change of attitude with respect to God's authority.
Once I was in rebellion to the authority of God.
Then I repented. God is now my authority. I submit to Him, instead of rebel against him. There has been a change in my attitude with respect to God.

I didn't go off somewhere and start naming sins and confessing them one by one. I didn't even collect them all in one big pool and present them to God. That is not repentance.

In fact it is a works-based salvation.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, it seems as if you are confused.
Again, let me state. This is not about what God knows.
Yes, God knows what sins we have committed. He is omniscient. He knows all things. It is not about God. It is not God that needs to repent. It is man. This is not about God.
Your statement: "If God does not know what the sins are, then you are not guilty," is completely off base and is a red herring to this conversation. We are not discussing God's omniscience. We are discussing man's repentance toward God. Let's keep on track, alright?

Repentance is not about turning from sins or any particular sin.
Repentance is a change of attitude with respect to God's authority.
Once I was in rebellion to the authority of God.
Then I repented. God is now my authority. I submit to Him, instead of rebel against him. There has been a change in my attitude with respect to God.

I didn't go off somewhere and start naming sins and confessing them one by one. I didn't even collect them all in one big pool and present them to God. That is not repentance.

In fact it is a works-based salvation.

And so you turned from your sins, which is "all" your sins and turned to God, who abuntaly pardoned you, of every sin you ever committed against Him and cast them in to the sea of forgetfulness, never to be remembered against you anymore. Of course if you continued in sin, He never forgave you. You make terms with God, when He is God, not you.:BangHead:

You always have to word things differently, as if you know something the rest do not know. If you submitted to Him, you certainly did not continue to follow the devil, which is sin. You are saying that you repented or turned from your sin, but do not want others to be able to say so. You a strange man DHK!

BBob,

 

[DHK]

And so you turned from your sins, which is "all" your sins and turned to God, who abuntaly pardoned you, of every sin you ever committed against Him and cast them in to the sea of forgetfulness, never to be remembered against you anymore. Of course if you continued in sin, He never forgave you. You make terms with God, when He is God, not you.:BangHead:

You always have to word things differently, as if you know something the rest do not know. If you submitted to Him, you certainly did not continue to follow the devil, which is sin. You are saying that you repented or turned from your sin, but do not want others to be able to say so. You a strange man DHK!

BBob,

The average preacher preaches: "Repent of all your sins and be saved." That is a false theology, and a works based salvation. It is also an impossible act to follow. Furthermore it is not what repentance is.

Read my post again and try and understand what repentance is.

 

[Pilgrimer]

Doesn't baptism correspond to circumcision?

It didn't in my experience. I received water baptism 48 hours after asking for my sins to be forgiven and Jesus to come into my heart. Remission of sin was immediately given the moment those words left my tongue, of that I have no doubt. But it was two long years before the rest of the Sinner's Prayer was answered and Jesus came to me in the spirit and took up his abode in my heart. That is when the circumcision of the heart takes place and we receive the seal of the covenant we have entered into with God, that is when the old stoney heart is removed and we are given a heart of flesh, that is when the Law of God is written in our hearts, that is when we are raised from death to life, that is our moment of regeneration, of awakening, of new birth, when the life-giving presence of Jesus comes down to dwell with us and we pass from death to life. It is in that moment that we are forever radically changed, from within, and thereafter the changes in our lives simply reflect the new spirit we walk in and the new life we now live.

After all, as the Scripture says, it is "Christ in you . . . the hope of glory." Except the Spirit of Christ abide in us, we have no life, no matter how convinced we are of the Gospel and committed we are to obeying it.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Allan]

Doesn't baptism correspond to circumcision?

No that is assumption and speculation at it's very best.
Nothing in scripture I'm aware of states the two corresponds as being the same thing.