And by choosing not hear the Word, and thus not hearing about salvation, based on who I voted for, they've made a decision about salvation based on who I voted for.
How do you not see that?
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Four More Years of Obama or Eternal Life for an Unsaved Person?
- Thread starter Zaac
- Start date
How do you not see that?
You are assuming that everyone else interprets Scripture the same as you do.
I don't have a clue as to which portions of Scripute you are thinking apply...
How you interpret those portions of Scripture...
Or how you are applying them to your daily life.
So either provide me with the verses that you think apply, tell me how you interpret them and how you apply them to your daily life...
Or answer my very simple question with a simple "yes" or "no".
My personal guess is that you do vote and now have no way of defending it given all that you have said in this thread.
Zaac, you paying attention?
Bumped for Zac - and still wondering why he doesn't want to give an example of a candidate who he feels meets his qualifications for a Chrisitan vote.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
You can say it again and again and it ain't gonna make it so. They make the decision not to hear the Gospel from YOU because you're perceived as a hypocrite. Doesn't mean they won't receive it from someone else and then make a decision about salvation.
How do you not see that? They don't get to know about salvation because they ain't gonna let you say anything to them because you look like a hypocrite who doesn't even keep the God you say they need ahead of your desire to win an election.
Christians have a large opportunity to make a statement about Christ and His importance in our lives ahead of everything else yet we're blowing it big time because we want to win an election that ain't saving a single soul.
Scripture says 14 if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land. 2 Chr. 7:14
It says HIS people not the lost, but HIS people. His people are the ones pushing the election of a man who doesn't follow Him. But His people are so full of themselves that it has become more important to them to win an election than it is to be able to win souls for His glory to eternity.
Why don't evangelicals just back an atheist? I mean if he's pro-life and anti-gay marriage, and he's the nominated candidate, why not?
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All hat & no cattle. Your admonishments mean very little, when you can't name a candidate.
I would rather vote for an atheist who promises tomake it easier for churches to support their charity work, than a supposed believer who wants to control what is preached, who the church accepts as members, who they have to marry....etc....
Again, name a candidate.
I would rather vote for an atheist who promises tomake it easier for churches to support their charity work, than a supposed believer who wants to control what is preached, who the church accepts as members, who they have to marry....etc....
Again, name a candidate.
plain_n_simple
Active Member
I see Zaac's point. The unsaved person is looking at the "Christian" who is backing someone they do not believe is a "Christian", becomes a sellout, no integrity really.
BINGO! If they're basing their salvational choice on who I voted for; if they allow me to witness to them, and possibly even make a profession of salvation, knowing I voted for a confessed supporter of unborn human killing and homosexual sympathizer; then I absolutely have to question what it is they think salvation is really all about.
As far as your last statement - who's to say they don't turn away from me and step in front of a bus, and therefore don't have any further chance to hear the gospel?
:BangHead:
You do realize that you keep confirming everything I've said with each post you make?
Over someone who supports and promotes the killing of thousands of unborn human beings; who supports and promotes a lifestyle Scripture tells us is abomination; who promotes economic and other policies that require us to place our trust in government and government support rather than God and scriptural principles....
Yep, it's a hard choice.
saturneptune
New Member
This is a reflection of the dilemma I was arguing during the primaries, the Republicans nominating a liberal-moderate at best, who is not a Christian and has a pro abortion, gay rights stance as governor of MA. It is an impossible issue for a Christian with conservative values to resolve with any satisfaction at this late date.
The charge was made many times what did a given person do to change the situation from the results of 2008. I do not know what more I could have done than go to a national convention as a delegate to nominate a third party candidate. It was a very discouraging experience I have discussed with Lady Eagle at length. The only conclusion I can come to is to work with what we have, and that is to vote for Romney with great regret. Romney has created jobs and there is a chance he will uphold our views on abortion and gay rights. The only thing one can do is start over and look forward to 2016. Lets be honest, for all the threads and debate, chances are Obama is going to be reelected, for anyone familiar with the electoral college and how each individual state votes.
I fully respect Zaac's views, and wish I agreed with him, Although it is a matter of judgement and a fine line, I come down on the side that a vote for Romney causes less harm than giving Obama effectively another vote for another four years. Zaac's heart is in the right place, and there is no trolling involved here.
There is another poster on this tread with many posts that not only does not know what he/she is talking about, the posts are designed to cause more confusion and heat. When it gets to the point of dragging in family members with ad hominem insults, the line has been crossed. My promise to this person is that they have not heard the last of the situation, and the person knows exactly what I am talking about.
The charge was made many times what did a given person do to change the situation from the results of 2008. I do not know what more I could have done than go to a national convention as a delegate to nominate a third party candidate. It was a very discouraging experience I have discussed with Lady Eagle at length. The only conclusion I can come to is to work with what we have, and that is to vote for Romney with great regret. Romney has created jobs and there is a chance he will uphold our views on abortion and gay rights. The only thing one can do is start over and look forward to 2016. Lets be honest, for all the threads and debate, chances are Obama is going to be reelected, for anyone familiar with the electoral college and how each individual state votes.
I fully respect Zaac's views, and wish I agreed with him, Although it is a matter of judgement and a fine line, I come down on the side that a vote for Romney causes less harm than giving Obama effectively another vote for another four years. Zaac's heart is in the right place, and there is no trolling involved here.
There is another poster on this tread with many posts that not only does not know what he/she is talking about, the posts are designed to cause more confusion and heat. When it gets to the point of dragging in family members with ad hominem insults, the line has been crossed. My promise to this person is that they have not heard the last of the situation, and the person knows exactly what I am talking about.
Let's assume the hypothetical conversation:
Me: I'd like to talk to you about your eternal salvation.
Him: Who'd you vote for?
Does anyone else actually see that conversation happening?
YOU YOURSELF have made mention that politics are not of the kingdom of God. I agree with you: Let's go out and witness, and leave the politics of this world out of our witnessing. When it's my time before the Throne, me and God will discuss who I voted for, and I'm pretty sure He'll let me know what He thinks about it.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Name your own candidate. All you're doing is making clear that like so many others it is more important to you to get what you think is important in this dying world while relegating Christ's Commission on down your list.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
The only reason you need to be beating your head side a brick wall is because of your comprehension problems. You don't get to witness to them if they think you're a hypocrite. If they don't think you're a hypocrite, they'll listen to you share the Gospel and make their salvation decision based upon the Gospel.
I know you like to confuse the point, but save it for someone who can't deal with your constant need to reframe the conversation in order to validate your points.
Be the same result as a hypocritical you attempting to share the Gospel with them.
See first response in this post.
Yep, when you've got evil vs evil, the Christian must choose the lesser of the evils. That's just dumb. The only reason y'all even consider voting for this man that Christians have called a cult for decades, is because it's more important to some of you to win an election and unseat Obama than it is to stand on some sort of conviction about Christ.
So like I said, next go round, let's just nominate a nice atheist who is pro-life, anti-gay marriage, and who has nice economic policies.
Because you and so many others make it abundantly clear that those things are more important than maintaining a witness for Christ.
plain_n_simple
Active Member
"The only conclusion I can come to is to work with what we have, and that is to vote for Romney with great regret."
This is why I put no trust or belief in politics. This statement is a reflection of how weak this man made system is. Thinking you can put a Christian label on something of the world and somehow make it work as if God instructed it. This is way below the example Jesus gave us. Vote for a lesser evil, no integrity in that.
This is why I put no trust or belief in politics. This statement is a reflection of how weak this man made system is. Thinking you can put a Christian label on something of the world and somehow make it work as if God instructed it. This is way below the example Jesus gave us. Vote for a lesser evil, no integrity in that.
plain_n_simple
Active Member
plain_n_simple
Active Member
Just a silly sidenote: back in the fifties the Mormons were taking a great deal of heat for not being more mainstream. They made "Jesus Christ" in much bigger letters on their logo. A quick PR fix lol.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
EXACTLY! This is what I keep hearing and it's the craziest thing I've heard coming from the Body of Christ in a long time.
My gosh. we're pushing a candidate who worships a false god. How can we not see the damage that this will do to our platform of preaching the Gospel.
Christ is not directing Christians to support a man who is clearly against Him?
Gary Johnson, Libertarian, 2012. Already told you why.
All you're doing is making clear that like so many others it is more important to you to get what you think is important in this dying world while relegating Christ's Commission on down your list.
All you are doing is patting yourself on the back, saying the same thing, avoiding questions, and pretending it gives you the upper hand. You say we are wrong, but will not tell us what makes you right.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
You won't get the chance to because the mass impression is going to be that Christians have supported the man who worships the false god.
Those who don't support him can push the issue and possibly get to a point of explaining that they didn't vote for him and the why behind it. Those who do support him won't be able to do so. But again, I don't think some of you care.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Good. Now you don't need mine.
Right, after all this is all about me. I need to borrow your rolleyes smiley.
To plain_n_simple:
I'll appreciate a plain and simple answer to the question.
Do you vote?
Yes or No?
I'll appreciate a plain and simple answer to the question.
Do you vote?
Yes or No?