Four Points of Calvinism in one verse

johnp:

Just a clarifying question.
Are you saying that Jesus had a sin nature?

 

Hello JohnB.

Yes.

Rather than just leave it there I will say;
This is the first time I can remember having this discussion. I am willing to learn.
I don't know but I don't think it makes a difference if Jesus came to us as Adam was but I believe He came to us as Adam became. Not as a sinner but with a fallen nature!

johnp.

 

I agree, this stemmed from our exegesis on the Sin through adam salvation through Christ verse.

It's gone astray though, to bad Arminians can't stay on topic. (But that would cause them to actually confront the text... can't have that!)

 

rc;
Do you suppose that your critisims of Arminians is on topic?
You rarely if ever are on topic
Mike

 

What was said preceeding this verse?
What was said after this verse?

Are you sure you want to isolate on this verse for you entire doctrine?

Let's try that with John 11:35! What doctrine can you build on that one verse alone? One side might say Jesus is a crybaby, the other might say Jesus had an allergy? Both would be wrong, as Calvinism and Arminianism are both WRONG!

 

Whetstone,
You have just divided All Christendom into two factions Calvinism and Arminianism. I refuse to accept your assessment because I know better!

Wake up and smell the coffee!

 

Wes,
wake up and see reality !

Whetstone hit it on the head.... You don't want to be "labeled" because you don't know what the labels mean...

Whety, A man is able or not? .... Not to hard to understand their can only be two views to that huh?

Darkness is the absence of light... please tell me Wes... is there another view than that? There is darkness or there is light... is there a third option? That's what you claim...

 

I am not a jar of jelly that needs a label. I am a child of the King!

Depends on what you include in darkness vs what God includes. Depends on your definition of light!

Your light is in the wrong frequency spectrum and actually hurts the eyes of sensibility.

 

Labels aren't bad... they just quickly clarify things.... If someone asks me what my theological beliefs are I'm not going to describe to them the Westminster Confession of faith to them... I'll just say that I'm a Calvinist....

 

rc;

They are bad when they don't accurately describe you. It's name calling to say the least. Not to mention when you have been told more than once that Wes is a Christian and it's what he preferrs to be called. It's nice that you are accrately potrayed by your claims. We all agree that you go by the teachings of men. And falsely accuse men of being this or that. We can't really expect anything less from the likes of you.
May Christ Shine His light On Us all;
Mike

 

You sound like the modern relativists that cannot discern between right and wrong, truth and error, yes and no. Let your yea be yea and your nay be nay. Is man totally unable to come to God or isn't he? Is he elected unconditionally or isn't he? These are simple questions. </font>[/QUOTE]NO! Emphatically NO! Man can, has the ability to approach the throne of God, with a contrite and repentant heart! God rent the vail that separated man from HIM by sacrificing His only begotten son as PAYMENT IN FULL FOR SIN, thus Satisfying the Penalty. The man who hears the word and Believes, and All men are capable of hearing the word and all are capable of belief, can therefore through faith enter into the Holy of Holies, the vail has been rent! No more sacrifice is possible! The way is clear!

NO! man is not elected UNCONDITIONALLY! Man must have faith in God to be elected into everlasting life!

 

sorry, dual post

 

Wes,
What does the following verse mean to you?

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

It means that the natural man can HEAR of the things of the Spirit of God, and not understand their meaning.

Which specific things of the Spirit of God is Paul referring to here? Is it the Gospel? Or, is it the deeper things of the Kingdom of God?

Before I was spiritually ready to understand it, Revelation was a complete mystery to me. But after my spirit grew in the Knowledge of God, and my Faith in God the Son became more intense, the Spirit of God began revealing to me some of the things revealed in Revelation! Therefore revelation is not the horrible book it used to be to me. God's Spirit is revealing to my spirit some of the hidden mysteries.

Now, what does that scripture mean to you?

 

Ok, now we are getting somewhere wes. You are so far a 2 point Arminian. 3 to go:

#1- Did Christ take away sin for every man or only the elect on the cross?

#2- Is the Holy Spirit capable of making a person desire salvation so much that they change their will?

#3- Will a person who has been saved by God ever lose that salvation under any circumstances, or will they ever ultimately apostasize?

Answer these three questions one way or the other and you will have proven yourself a Calvinist or Arminian. Hatred of the title has nothing to do with it. We are speaking stricly of definitions here. </font>[/QUOTE]#1 The Christ DEALT WITH SIN, He dealt it a fatal blow, it now has NO POWER WHAT EVER TO KEEP MAN FROM HAVING EVERLASTING LIFE through FAITH in Him and The Father! You will notice that I said the Christ dealt with SIN, the Scripture says ALL the world's SIN! Sin is a dead issue when discussing SALVATION!

#2, if you are asking me to assess the power of God, all I can say is, there is none greater! God the FATHER, God the Son and God the HOLY SPIRIT are ONE GOD.

Did God MAKE MAN? Then is not GOD capable of persuading a single man? Only a fool would say that God is not Capable, after all look what he did to SAUL and the road to Damascus. But even more impressive is what God does to the ordinary man who reads and hears God's word. God does not have to do Dramatic light shows for the Average man like he did for Paul. God instead, allows the truth of his word to be taken into the mind of man, and those truthes are planted and either grow or die, depending on the man! If all men were totally depraved, NOT A SINGLE ONE COULD BE SAVED! But Man is not totally depraved, possessing only a propensity to sin! So man who is made in the image of God has the capabilities and abilities that God built into man to be able to hear, and to decide what to do with what he hears.

God the Son is called, THE WORD! Man hears the word and believes! Man believes into FAITH, man's faith in God marks man as savable, God saves!

#3. If you can change your mind about any one thing you can change your mind about everything! it is in your mind that your faith in God resides. So what does it take to change your mind? Any great tragedy in your life may have the effect of putting doubt into you about God. If you doubt God a little you can doubt God a lot. The more doubt you have the less faith you have. That is why Jesus and the Apostles tell us to have Faith don't doubt! So yes you can lose your faith through circumstances, but scriptures remind you to not lose faith!

Oh, by the way, it is not God that does the changing. He will not hold you against your will.


NO! I answer the Questions based upon my own personal understanding of the scripture NOT on Arminius or Calvins understanding of the scripture. So if you desire to label me an Arminian which, since I oppose what your understanding is, you will do! Just remember, I have never to my knowledge read a single work of Arminius, except the snippets you folks have posted here in this forum. ALL that I understand I have received directly from the Holy Bible....the same place you should get your understanding. So any label other that "Believing Christian" that you may want to attach to me, is a lie, and that makes you a liar! So, label me and you confess to being a liar!