Four Views of God's Relationship with Time

[skypair]

Apparently, there are many published works by philosophers and theologians defending the other three views, but not so for this one.

Where WOULD he even get the view then (unless he hung around BB too much :laugh: )

If you think God knows future events in time because he has foresight of all things, then I'd guess your view is a higher dimension one (under the immutable category). It doesn't seem that you think God knows the events in time only from experience within time.

No, cause some have claimed I am an "open theist." I do believe that God, predicated on His foreknowledge, changes His mind. I also believe that He "injects" Himself into time at important junctures to change to course of events (we call it "dispensationalism," I believe).

This might help you understand both me and webdog ---- God the Father transcends all time but changes His mind through forknowledge. Christ the Son (God) is "Alpha and Omega" (beginning and end of time) and interjects Himself and is contained in time, in creation, to accomplish His will in time. Therefore, my suggestion as to how to handle the issue is to see that God operates from without time as Father foreknowing who would believe and Christ operates in time to accomplish God's will. God can't be God outside of time but not inside it so He handles the "contradiction" in the Person of Christ.

skypair

 

[russell55]

Where WOULD he even get the view then (unless he hung around BB too much :laugh: )

I have no idea. I really only know what he said about it. I don't think I'd ever heard of it before, but the others were all familiar.

No, cause some have claimed I am an "open theist." I do believe that God, predicated on His foreknowledge, changes His mind. I also believe that He "injects" Himself into time at important junctures to change to course of events (we call it "dispensationalism," I believe).

If you beleive God has perfect foreknowledge, then you aren't an open thiest. If you believe God transcends time, then you aren't any of the mutable views.

I suppose you could be a confused open theist.

 

[russell55]

William Lane Craig, as I understand it, holds to a view where God was timeless before time was created, but then became "in time." This seems contradictory to me....how can God not be bound by time, then after he creates it, become stuck in time?

I think William Lane Craig is a Molinist, which, (I think) still has a traditional view of God's relationship to time, just a different view than the reformed one on how he works providentially within it.

 

[npetreley]

This is a little late in the thread, but I go with the traditional view.

 

[J.D.]

I used to be a Higher Dimensionist, but now I'm a traditionalist on this issue. The higher dimension view served my arminian view of God's foreknowledge very well. God saw all of time in one frame, and ratified it based on His satisfaction that it would turn out the way He wished. But He had no causal relationship to it, other than tipping the first domino over, so to speak.

The traditionalist view shows God as the agent of history, the active cause, the determinant of the equation. That describes the God who upholds all things by the word of His power.

 

[russell55]

That describes the God who upholds all things by the word of His power.

Funny you should mention that verse. I just wrote something on it, and in studying it, several things I read thought the idea was that Christ carries all created things along toward a goal or the fulfillment of a plan. That's certainly one of the intriguing statements of scripture that I think points to a traditional view of God's relationship to time--that he knows everything in time not just because he sees what happens, but because he is directly involved in bringing the universe and time itself along according to his plan.

 

[TCGreek]

God has authored time and can do with it as he like. Nothing he does is a violation. He is transcendental, but at times chooses to intervene.

At the end of every debate on the nature of God, we find ourselves concurring with the psalmist: "Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too great for me to know!" (139:6, NLT).

 

[webdog]

God has authored time and can do with it as he like. Nothing he does is a violation. He is transcendental, but at times chooses to intervene.

At the end of every debate on the nature of God, we find ourselves concurring with the psalmist: "Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too great for me to know!" (139:6, NLT).

Amen :thumbs:

 

[MB]

Why we don't know what God knows

I've heard all kinds of explanations of how God knows what He knows. I've heard He lives outside of time and views all events at once. How ever, I'm not so sure.

To begin with if science is right and time and light are intertwined meaning one cannot exist with out the other then where there is no light there is no presence. There is no time and therefore no existence, at least for man. If there is, it exist in total darkness. This was explained to me this way,and seems to make sense. If what made the light for the past has long since stopped making it for the past then the past is in darkness. It had to of stopped making it for the past because no one is there and there would be no need, not to mention the same fuel doesn't light the past world forever. Which is why we can only remember it. If the light of the future depends on the same source as we have to day then the future is in total darkness as well. The reason is simple the fuel needed to produce the light hasn't reached it's source as yet because it is still in the future. If the light were already burning then it is still using the same fuel because it can't have the fuel of it's own future. and there be any future at all. Once fuel has entered the past it has been burned and there is nothing left but the fuel of the future. The fuel that wasn't burn at that particular moment.

You might ask well how does God know what He knows. I don't believe it's because He wrote the future for each individual. I accept that it is simply because He is God and I have no idea how or why He knows what He knows and neither does anyone, but God. God doesn't have to look at the future to know, He all ready knew,because He's God. We aren't even close to His level of intelligence so how could we ever hope to understand everything God knows?
MB

 

[Humblesmith]

I used to be a Higher Dimensionist, but now I'm a traditionalist on this issue. The higher dimension view served my arminian view of God's foreknowledge very well. God saw all of time in one frame, and ratified it based on His satisfaction that it would turn out the way He wished. But He had no causal relationship to it, other than tipping the first domino over, so to speak.

The traditionalist view shows God as the agent of history, the active cause, the determinant of the equation. That describes the God who upholds all things by the word of His power.

God does not have to be in time for Him to control all aspects that are in time. He can control everything from outside of time. In fact, if we're measuring things by 'whatever attributes God the most glory and power' then we're forced into a view where God is not bound by time.

In any case, He can cause all things in time while He is outside of time.

 

[J.D.]

Curious - How many here think that time is linear for God?

 

[russell55]

Curious - How many here think that time is linear for God?

I have no idea how time is for God. Trying to understand precisely how God experiences things is a futile exercise for a finite mind.

When scripture says "in him we live and move and have our being", I'd think that means that in some way, God encompasses time.

But I also think he works his will in time in what seems to be a linear way. He works certain things "in the fulness of time" or "at the right time." Scripture represents time as moving forward toward a consummation, and God as sustaining that forward movement of time.

Beyond that, I can't really say much.