Free Grace Theology vs. Armianism vs. Calvinism

[JamesL]

Doyou also believe that Christ died for all mankind?

I do, but not in the sense of those who advocate a Free Will position. Namely, that Christ died to give an "opportunity" too be saved, if only one will "make a decision"

I believe very firmly that the dichotomy of spirit/body must be considered in the discussion. A depraved man is corrupt in his inner man and outer man. One on account of Adam (flesh) the other by his own doing (spirit).

This corruption is likened to a disease in scripture. Jesus made the correlation when He healed someone and pronounced them forgiven.

His death was for redemption from sin - both inner man and outer man.

By virtue of the fact that even unbelievers will be raised bodily, that necessitates that Christ's death provided the expiation of sin from their bodies.

Therefore, Christ died for the sins of all, for all will be raised. 1Cor 15:21-22 in Adam all die, in Christ all will be raised. Doesn't mean they're going to heaven, just that they will be raised in a body which is able to withstand the judgment of God

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I do, but not in the sense of those who advocate a Free Will position. Namely, that Christ died to give an "opportunity" too be saved, if only one will "make a decision"

I believe very firmly that the dichotomy of spirit/body must be considered in the discussion. A depraved man is corrupt in his inner man and outer man. One on account of Adam (flesh) the other by his own doing (spirit).

This corruption is likened to a disease in scripture. Jesus made the correlation when He healed someone and pronounced them forgiven.

His death was for redemption from sin - both inner man and outer man.

By virtue of the fact that even unbelievers will be raised bodily, that necessitates that Christ's death provided the expiation of sin from their bodies.

Therefore, Christ died for the sins of all, for all will be raised. 1Cor 15:21-22 in Adam all die, in Christ all will be raised. Doesn't mean they're going to heaven, just that they will be raised in a body which is able to withstand the judgment of God

Allright....well I don't.

 

[JamesL]

Allright....well I don't.

I'm curious....have you ever considered how the resurrection relates to sin? And how unbelievers are raised to eternal judgment?

 

[Greektim]

I understand what you are saying, Greektim. At the same time, we know that takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked (I won't bother to quote Scripture here...I'm sure you are aware of what I am speaking).

Perhaps the context is different...but I don't think that we can make a blanket statement that it makes God "happy" when He gets to destroy people (which is the idea that I get when some present the topic). When God exercises His wrath, I can understand that it is to His glory, and that He is satisfied with that judgement. At the same time, I have to believe that destroying wicked men does not bring him 'pleasure' or 'delight' not only because Scripture indicates the opposite but also because it seems foreign to the character of God as revealed through Scripture. Does God 'morn' the lost? I believe so. Does He regret their destruction? I think not.

I'm not sure it is not both. Bitter-sweet.

I think speaking of God's emotions is a tricky thing. Part of the discussion deals w/ God's engagement with space-time and the emotion he feels. This gets confusing b/c God is transcendent. This is where I tread lightly b/c I'm not philosophical/theological enough to engage in these discussions.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

God says he does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked.

 

[Yeshua1]

I saw a thread that Webdog posted in 2005 and it was very educating. Are most here Free Gracers? In some ways I get confused with Calvinism. Reading Metzger I am just confused on why God would take pleasure in billions of souls suffering in Hell. I know God grants salvation to the elect and does not to others. Perhaps my confusion comes because I read the Bible and just can't find the word pleasure in Gods heart in describing a 100 billion people in Hell. What say you?

there are some here who would indeed see us as having real free will intact, other that we must have grace from the lord in order to freely choose Jesus and get saved...

We cannot read the mind of god regarding how he views those in hell, but do know that no one who gets there can say that it was not fair, and they did not deserve being there!

 

[webdog]

Wow, 9 years ago? Which thread ?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'm curious....have you ever considered how the resurrection relates to sin? And how unbelievers are raised to eternal judgment?

Yes but I dont have the time to debate it right now (AT WORK) See below article from the Primitive Baptists.

http://www.primitivebaptist.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=966&Itemid=36

 

[tyndale1946]

there are some here who would indeed see us as having real free will intact, other that we must have grace from the lord in order to freely choose Jesus and get saved...

We cannot read the mind of god regarding how he views those in hell, but do know that no one who gets there can say that it was not fair, and they did not deserve being there!

You need to a visit to the potters house

Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Don't you brethren think that those that God gave to his Son Jesus Christ he will not save? ALL the Father gives me will come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out!... Praise the Lord that the Salvation of his people is in his hands and not ours!... That is not my opinion that is scripture... The Word Of God!... Hebrews 4:9 Their remaineth therefore a rest to the to the people of God. Every night when I lay my head on my pillow and go to sleep I have the assurance that God will save ALL his people, just like he said he would!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You need to a visit to the potters house

Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Don't you brethren think that those that God gave to his Son Jesus Christ he will not save? ALL the Father gives me will come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out!... Praise the Lord that the Salvation of his people is in his hands and not ours!... That is not my opinion that is scripture... The Word Of God!... Hebrews 4:9 Their remaineth therefore a rest to the to the people of God. Every night when I lay my head on my pillow and go to sleep I have the assurance that God will save ALL his people, just like he said he would!

Well done Brother Glen....excellent :applause:

 

[Yeshua1]

You need to a visit to the potters house

Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Don't you brethren think that those that God gave to his Son Jesus Christ he will not save? ALL the Father gives me will come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out!... Praise the Lord that the Salvation of his people is in his hands and not ours!... That is not my opinion that is scripture... The Word Of God!... Hebrews 4:9 Their remaineth therefore a rest to the to the people of God. Every night when I lay my head on my pillow and go to sleep I have the assurance that God will save ALL his people, just like he said he would!

I hold to the Election of grace, so would agree that ALL of those intended by the father to get saved by death of christ will be saved, but was just addressing the breakdown here on BB!