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Free school lunches
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
It’s better than the NEA getting the $$$$$
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
Yes, when it costs them nothing, it is little valued. I know of students who dumped their “free” lunches in the trash. But not without cause. The fare was far from appetizing.
The suspicion is that those contracted to provide the food are the ones profiting, not the students, not the community.
Sounds like a good plan. A healthy diet is essential to mental and physical growth. It is part of the mission of the public school system to educate children, and providing food helps them fulfill that mission. As a person who pays school taxes, I would gladly pay a little extra to ensure that all children have access to food so they can study.
It's quite similar to providing "free" textbooks, teachers, libraries, bus transportation, desks, etc. Most people don't get worked up about those things because many perceive "free lunches" as a giveaway to poor people. However, as a disciple of Christ (and someone who recognizes that God judges the nations by the way they treat the poor, the stranger, and the marginalized), I can't imagine being against someone else receiving good things.
Some have commented on how terrible school lunches have been (I experienced that all the way from 1st-12th grade), but that's a different issue that can be handled appropriately if a school district wants to change things.
Your whole and entire post was awesome and intelligent.
This part is what I loved the most.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Apparently, very few Republicans or Democrats care about restricting the size, reach, and scope of government power as long as it is doing something that they regard as "good", while they fail to realize that giving government power to do things that they regard as "good" also means giving government power to do things they regard as "bad". As Frank S. Meyer put it:
"The state therefore has two natural functions, functions essential to the existence of any peaceful, ordered society: to protect the rights of citizens against violent or fraudulent assault, and to judge in conflicts of right with right. It has a further third function, which is another aspect of the first, that is, to protect its citizens from assault by foreign powers. These three functions are expressed by three powers: the police power, which protects the citizen against domestic violence; the military power, which protects the citizen against violence from abroad; and the courts of law, which judge between rights and rights, as well as sharing with the police power the protection of the citizen against domestic violence.
…
But since this institution must possess a monopoly of legal physical force, to give to it in addition any further power is fraught with danger; that monopoly gives to the state so much power that its natural functions should be its maximum functions."
- Frank S. Meyer, In Defense of Freedom: A Conservative Credo, published in 1962
No, that doesn't make sense at all. That's a particularly bad example of the "slippery slope" logical fallacy.
Moreover, in the United States, the government is controlled by the people. In this specific case, the local school district is controlled by the local community. The local community has a high level of control over the policies and actions of the school district.
While Mr. Meyer may have had some good things to say, I place his thinking and opinions much lower than the teaching of Jesus and the biblical witness.
The extreme individualism pushed by libertarian thinking is contrary to the message of Jesus (as well as the whole of scripture). Government has been ordained by God to act for human flourishing (including justice and domestic stability). Since God judges the nations by the way it treats the poor, the stranger (refugees and immigrants), and the marginalized, we can know that God approves of both the church and state to serve the needs of the needy and obtain justice for those who are oppressed.
Ezekiel 16:49
See here—this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters had majesty, abundance of food, and enjoyed carefree ease, but they did not help the poor and needy.
Jeremiah 5:26-29
Indeed, there are wicked scoundrels among my people.
They lie in wait like bird catchers hiding in ambush.
They set deadly traps to catch people.
Like a cage filled with the birds that have been caught,
their houses are filled with the gains of their fraud and deceit.
That is how they have gotten so rich and powerful.
That is how they have grown fat and sleek.
There is no limit to the evil things they do.
They do not plead the cause of the fatherless in such a way as to win it.
They do not defend the rights of the poor.
I will certainly punish them for doing such things!” says the Lord.
“I will certainly bring retribution on such a nation as this!
Ezekiel 18:5, 7-9
Suppose a man is righteous. He practices what is just and right… [he] does not oppress anyone, but gives the debtor back whatever was given in pledge, does not commit robbery, but gives his bread to the hungry and clothes the naked, does not engage in usury or charge interest, but refrains from wrongdoing, promotes true justice between men, and follows my statutes and observes my regulations by carrying them out. That man is righteous; he will certainly live, declares the Sovereign Lord.
Proverbs 31:8-9
Open your mouth on behalf of those unable to speak,
for the legal rights of all the dying.
Open your mouth, judge in righteousness,
and plead the cause of the poor and needy.
Isaiah 10:1-3
Beware, those who enact unjust policies;
those who are always instituting unfair regulations,
to keep the poor from getting fair treatment,
and to deprive the oppressed among my people of justice,
so they can steal what widows own,
and loot what belongs to orphans.
What will you do on judgment day,
when destruction arrives from a distant place?
To whom will you run for help?
Where will you leave your wealth?
Isaiah 58:10-11
You must actively help the hungry
and feed the oppressed.
Then your light will dispel the darkness,
and your darkness will be transformed into noonday.
The Lord will continually lead you;
he will feed you even in parched regions.
He will give you renewed strength,
and you will be like a well-watered garden,
like a spring that continually produces water.
Luke 10:29-37
But the expert, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell into the hands of robbers, who stripped him, beat him up, and went off, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road, but when he saw the injured man he passed by on the other side. So too a Levite, when he came up to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan who was traveling came to where the injured man was, and when he saw him, he felt compassion for him. He went up to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring olive oil and wine on them. Then he put him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, ‘Take care of him, and whatever else you spend, I will repay you when I come back this way.’ Which of these three do you think became a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the robbers?” The expert in religious law said, “The one who showed mercy to him.” So Jesus said to him, “Go and do the same.”
1 John 3:16-19
We have come to know love by this: that Jesus laid down his life for us; thus we ought to lay down our lives for our fellow Christians. But whoever has the world’s possessions and sees his fellow Christian in need and shuts off his compassion against him, how can the love of God reside in such a person?
Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue but in deed and truth. And by this we will know that we are of the truth and will convince our conscience in his presence…
Matthew 25:41-46
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels! For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger and you did not receive me as a guest, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not give you whatever you needed?’ Then he will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for me.’ And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
See here—this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters had majesty, abundance of food, and enjoyed carefree ease, but they did not help the poor and needy.
Jeremiah 5:26-29
Indeed, there are wicked scoundrels among my people.
They lie in wait like bird catchers hiding in ambush.
They set deadly traps to catch people.
Like a cage filled with the birds that have been caught,
their houses are filled with the gains of their fraud and deceit.
That is how they have gotten so rich and powerful.
That is how they have grown fat and sleek.
There is no limit to the evil things they do.
They do not plead the cause of the fatherless in such a way as to win it.
They do not defend the rights of the poor.
I will certainly punish them for doing such things!” says the Lord.
“I will certainly bring retribution on such a nation as this!
Ezekiel 18:5, 7-9
Suppose a man is righteous. He practices what is just and right… [he] does not oppress anyone, but gives the debtor back whatever was given in pledge, does not commit robbery, but gives his bread to the hungry and clothes the naked, does not engage in usury or charge interest, but refrains from wrongdoing, promotes true justice between men, and follows my statutes and observes my regulations by carrying them out. That man is righteous; he will certainly live, declares the Sovereign Lord.
Proverbs 31:8-9
Open your mouth on behalf of those unable to speak,
for the legal rights of all the dying.
Open your mouth, judge in righteousness,
and plead the cause of the poor and needy.
Isaiah 10:1-3
Beware, those who enact unjust policies;
those who are always instituting unfair regulations,
to keep the poor from getting fair treatment,
and to deprive the oppressed among my people of justice,
so they can steal what widows own,
and loot what belongs to orphans.
What will you do on judgment day,
when destruction arrives from a distant place?
To whom will you run for help?
Where will you leave your wealth?
Isaiah 58:10-11
You must actively help the hungry
and feed the oppressed.
Then your light will dispel the darkness,
and your darkness will be transformed into noonday.
The Lord will continually lead you;
he will feed you even in parched regions.
He will give you renewed strength,
and you will be like a well-watered garden,
like a spring that continually produces water.
Luke 10:29-37
But the expert, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell into the hands of robbers, who stripped him, beat him up, and went off, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road, but when he saw the injured man he passed by on the other side. So too a Levite, when he came up to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan who was traveling came to where the injured man was, and when he saw him, he felt compassion for him. He went up to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring olive oil and wine on them. Then he put him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, ‘Take care of him, and whatever else you spend, I will repay you when I come back this way.’ Which of these three do you think became a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the robbers?” The expert in religious law said, “The one who showed mercy to him.” So Jesus said to him, “Go and do the same.”
1 John 3:16-19
We have come to know love by this: that Jesus laid down his life for us; thus we ought to lay down our lives for our fellow Christians. But whoever has the world’s possessions and sees his fellow Christian in need and shuts off his compassion against him, how can the love of God reside in such a person?
Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue but in deed and truth. And by this we will know that we are of the truth and will convince our conscience in his presence…
Matthew 25:41-46
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels! For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger and you did not receive me as a guest, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not give you whatever you needed?’ Then he will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for me.’ And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
KenH
Well-Known Member
False.
Romans 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
What is "this very thing" described before this verse? Maintaining law and order. It is not referring to redistributing wealth.
False. See my previous comments above.
False. Every individual is judged based on Christ and His perfect righteousness. God's elect are in Christ and have already been judged in Him, their sins having been imputed to Christ and His perfect righteousness having been imputed to them. The reprobate are not in Christ and do not have Christ's perfect righteousness imputed to them.
False. The church that Christ established has as its mission the proclamation of the gospel of Christ.
2 Timothy 4:1-2 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
The only benevolence we see the church, as a body, engaging in is among their own members, such as widows. Now, individual members can do benevolence elsewhere.
I already established earlier in this post that the state's function is to maintain law and order.
Obviously, @Baptist Believer, we have different views on the proper size, reach, and scope of government. And that is fine. I quite realize that minarchism is out of favor and that, politically, I am out of place in 21st century America. Politically, I would be much more at home in the 1890s.
BB you made a mistake ---- your statement belongs in the joke section!!!
Our county has free lunches. Breakfast and lunch.
I don't have a problem with feeding the children who cannot afford (or their parents cannot afford) to eat a healthy meal.
It is, however, for all students. If the poverty rate is at a specific point then all meals are free.
And yes, @KenH , it is federal dollars. And it is the federal government that decides what can be served.
I don't have a problem with feeding the children who cannot afford (or their parents cannot afford) to eat a healthy meal.
It is, however, for all students. If the poverty rate is at a specific point then all meals are free.
And yes, @KenH , it is federal dollars. And it is the federal government that decides what can be served.
can not afford ??? I contend that many of these families can afford it - as they waste their money on unneeded things.
And yes, @KenH , it is federal dollars. And it is the federal government that decides what can be served.[/QUOTE]
NEGATIVE - NOT according to the Tenth amendment!
You contradict yourself. You quoted the part of the passage about paying taxes (wealth redistribution) and ignored the historical context of the passage in Romans.
Did you know that the Roman Empire aided the poor with procuring farm equipment and established granaries to provide grain at reduced prices to those who needed relief? There were also distributions of free pork, olive oil, and salt at regular intervals. Taxes from the wealthier citizens and government revenue from other sources paid for that food and assistance. I’m not making the claim that the Roman Empire was righteous, but it was not simply a military state. Moreover, even military states understand the need to help their own citizens.
Unless you think Paul (and the Holy Spirit Who inspired his teaching) was ignorant of his own time and the government he was under, then Paul contradicts your assertion.
You are letting your neat and tidy theology restrict the plain teaching of the scriptures. I already quoted several relevant passages regarding how God judges the nations. We see that all the time in the Old Testament prophets. The “reprobate” nations are also judged according to their actions. Did you not read them and consider what they clearly said? Perhaps I gave you too many… Here is a shorter list:
Jeremiah 5:26-29
Indeed, there are wicked scoundrels among my people.
They lie in wait like bird catchers hiding in ambush.
They set deadly traps to catch people.
Like a cage filled with the birds that have been caught,
their houses are filled with the gains of their fraud and deceit.
That is how they have gotten so rich and powerful.
That is how they have grown fat and sleek.
There is no limit to the evil things they do.
They do not plead the cause of the fatherless in such a way as to win it.
They do not defend the rights of the poor.
I will certainly punish them for doing such things!” says the Lord.
“I will certainly bring retribution on such a nation as this!
Indeed, there are wicked scoundrels among my people.
They lie in wait like bird catchers hiding in ambush.
They set deadly traps to catch people.
Like a cage filled with the birds that have been caught,
their houses are filled with the gains of their fraud and deceit.
That is how they have gotten so rich and powerful.
That is how they have grown fat and sleek.
There is no limit to the evil things they do.
They do not plead the cause of the fatherless in such a way as to win it.
They do not defend the rights of the poor.
I will certainly punish them for doing such things!” says the Lord.
“I will certainly bring retribution on such a nation as this!
Ezekiel 16:49
See here—this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters had majesty, abundance of food, and enjoyed carefree ease, but they did not help the poor and needy.
See here—this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters had majesty, abundance of food, and enjoyed carefree ease, but they did not help the poor and needy.
Of course, but apparently the “gospel” you believe in is a “gospel” stripped of all of its social and moral implications. One cannot actually love one’s neighbor unless you love them in word and deed. Christian love demands being an advocate for the poor, disenfranchised, the stranger (including immigrants), and those who are oppressed. The Old and New Testament teaching demands it.
I realize there is a whole history of “the fundamentals” of the Christian faith distinguishing itself from the so-called “social gospel” that occurred in the late 19th and early 20th century. But those who threw away the social justice implications of the gospel make a massive theological error that many “conservative” people continue in. Instead of letting the scriptures correct their warped understanding, most “conservatives” have conserved the error of their fore-bearers and made the “gospel” into a set of theological affirmations. Moreover, they often claim they are defending the scriptures while ignoring everything contradicts their faulty theology.
You’ve just shown me you know nothing of church history, nor have seriously considered who loving one’s neighbors (and enemies) requires.
Where in the world does the TEACHING of Jesus fit into your theology? If Jesus is the very image of the invisible God; Creator of al things; the One Who holds everything together; the Head of the church; the Firstborn of the dead; the First in all things; and the fullness of the Triune God dwelling in Him (see Colossians 15-19), don’t you think that we need to pay attention to His teaching?
The church serves the community as as individual members AND as a body. That’s the whole point of the teaching of the “body of Christ,” where all the diverse gifts work together in unity.
Luke 10:29-37
But the expert, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell into the hands of robbers, who stripped him, beat him up, and went off, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road, but when he saw the injured man he passed by on the other side. So too a Levite, when he came up to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan who was traveling came to where the injured man was, and when he saw him, he felt compassion for him. He went up to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring olive oil and wine on them. Then he put him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, ‘Take care of him, and whatever else you spend, I will repay you when I come back this way.’ Which of these three do you think became a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the robbers?” The expert in religious law said, “The one who showed mercy to him.” So Jesus said to him, “Go and do the same.”
Matthew 25:41-46
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels! For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger and you did not receive me as a guest, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not give you whatever you needed?’ Then he will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for me.’ And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
But the expert, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell into the hands of robbers, who stripped him, beat him up, and went off, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road, but when he saw the injured man he passed by on the other side. So too a Levite, when he came up to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan who was traveling came to where the injured man was, and when he saw him, he felt compassion for him. He went up to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring olive oil and wine on them. Then he put him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, ‘Take care of him, and whatever else you spend, I will repay you when I come back this way.’ Which of these three do you think became a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the robbers?” The expert in religious law said, “The one who showed mercy to him.” So Jesus said to him, “Go and do the same.”
Matthew 25:41-46
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels! For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger and you did not receive me as a guest, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not give you whatever you needed?’ Then he will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for me.’ And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Sure, but that doesn’t mean that the church is not called to serve corporately.
Honestly, I don’t care about your political philosophy, what you call yourself, your political party, or whether or not you “fit in.” I care whether or not you are aligned with the teachings of Jesus and are following Him in discipleship. He is a wise and faithful teacher and will transform any failings you have into glory.
Many can afford it. Many others can send some kind of lunch, albeit not a healthy one.
But many cannot afford it.
Think about it. 23% of the people here make under 14k a year. Many of these are single parents, many working two jobs. We have homeless children that have a decent meal only at school.
Now, let's say that only 23% are legitimately in need of help. That's about 43,000 people (I realize these are not all, or mostly children).
My point is that there are a lot of children who would survive on peanut butter sandwiches (like their parent) and never have a decent meal without some type of assistance.
Now....should the entire school system get free lunches? I don't believe so.
At one time the churches and the community would step in and help. But those days are gone.
That is the whole point of this thread- several school districts are giving free lunch to everyone - I'm guessing it is so that the kids on food stamps will not be recognized.
Why are churches not stepping up?
So - who here attends a church that has a food closed?
How does your food kitchen work?
Let me share with you how it all works.
The USDA subsidizes some of these monies.
Students' parents are required to fill out a free/reduced lunch form. The only person who sees them is the lunch finance officer.
Children are classified as:
However, parents won't keep up their payments and I don't know a school that isn't in the red for lunch.
Students are not required to eat the school breakfasts or lunches. They can bring their own. About half do so. For those that do eat what the school provides, at my school where I serve now in administration, the lunch finance officer serves as the "cashier" and each child has a number that they tell her and she logs them into the computer.
Church feeding the schools of America is woefully impossible. And they wouldn't know anything of food allergies or such.
As a side note - Joe Biden threatened to take away USDA funds for the school lunch programs if schools did not draw up a policy to protect gay and transgender students.
Can you imagine - taking food from the mouths of children?
I'll never understand why people don't care if students have anything to eat.
The USDA subsidizes some of these monies.
Students' parents are required to fill out a free/reduced lunch form. The only person who sees them is the lunch finance officer.
Children are classified as:
- free lunch = free
- reduced lunch = $0.40
- regular lunch = $1.00
However, parents won't keep up their payments and I don't know a school that isn't in the red for lunch.
Students are not required to eat the school breakfasts or lunches. They can bring their own. About half do so. For those that do eat what the school provides, at my school where I serve now in administration, the lunch finance officer serves as the "cashier" and each child has a number that they tell her and she logs them into the computer.
Church feeding the schools of America is woefully impossible. And they wouldn't know anything of food allergies or such.
As a side note - Joe Biden threatened to take away USDA funds for the school lunch programs if schools did not draw up a policy to protect gay and transgender students.
Can you imagine - taking food from the mouths of children?
I'll never understand why people don't care if students have anything to eat.