fromtheright
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carpro,
They could do that before the PATRIOT Act.
They could do that before the PATRIOT Act.
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Free societies vs. fear societies
- Thread starter fromtheright
- Start date
fromtheright
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I knew that. 
Seriously, wasn't sure. There are several out there who are scared over that.
Seriously, wasn't sure. There are several out there who are scared over that.SeekingTruth
Member
If the Patriot Act is infringing on the free exchange of ideas, how come we are free to post statements disagreeing not only with it, but with everything else the Bush administration does????
fromtheright
<img src =/2844.JPG>
BiR,
I'm sorry, I completely missed your post and your kind remembrance of me. Am still very much hoping to get to meet soon.
I enjoyed the book very much. I did have some reservations toward the end, primarily with his comment, as I noted earlier, that Mideast regimes are so dependent on our money, equating it to the Soviet Union's dependence on Western trade. A very poor analogy. Soviet dependence was one way; that is not the case, obviously with Middle Eastern governments. I also think that an equation of Communist "faith" with Islamism which has wider appeal, I believe, among broader section of Arab populations than Marx-Lenin did in the Soviet bloc. I don't think these points detract, though, from the universalism of natural rights. But it should encourage us to be careful in our national security strategy.
I have not seen those influences [Strauss and Machiavelli] discussed
Are you serious (judging from the chuckles at the end of that sentence, I'm guessing not )? Several earlier discussions were centered around Strauss and Machiavelli when discussing neo-conservatism. IMO, those connections are tangential unless specified. I'm afraid, though, that I probably can't discuss it very intelligently anyway. I've only read one book by Strauss and it's been years since I read The Prince, the only thing I've read by Machiavelli.
And who is Emmanuel Goldstein?
You got me. Who is he?
Take care, my friend.
KJ,
Just wanted to remind you of your September 14 commitment to address my earlier post. Not at all to be sarcastic, I know it is easy to forget posts/threads once they drop off the first page. Hoping to hear back from you. BTW, I apologize for my earlier sarcasm, I was just very frustrated with the discussion.
Joseph Botwinick,
If you see this post, am curious if you've read other neo-cons? I read Robert Kagan's The Twilight Struggle about the Sandinistas in Nicaragua and the Reagan Administration's response years ago and was very impressed. Am about to order a couple of his books (Present Dangers and Paradise and Power) from Amazon. Will let you know once I read them. BTW, I haven't read Sharansky's memoirs yet, hope to get to it in a couple of months.
I'm sorry, I completely missed your post and your kind remembrance of me. Am still very much hoping to get to meet soon.
I enjoyed the book very much. I did have some reservations toward the end, primarily with his comment, as I noted earlier, that Mideast regimes are so dependent on our money, equating it to the Soviet Union's dependence on Western trade. A very poor analogy. Soviet dependence was one way; that is not the case, obviously with Middle Eastern governments. I also think that an equation of Communist "faith" with Islamism which has wider appeal, I believe, among broader section of Arab populations than Marx-Lenin did in the Soviet bloc. I don't think these points detract, though, from the universalism of natural rights. But it should encourage us to be careful in our national security strategy.
I have not seen those influences [Strauss and Machiavelli] discussed
Are you serious (judging from the chuckles at the end of that sentence, I'm guessing not
)? Several earlier discussions were centered around Strauss and Machiavelli when discussing neo-conservatism. IMO, those connections are tangential unless specified. I'm afraid, though, that I probably can't discuss it very intelligently anyway. I've only read one book by Strauss and it's been years since I read The Prince, the only thing I've read by Machiavelli.And who is Emmanuel Goldstein?
You got me. Who is he?
Take care, my friend.
KJ,
Just wanted to remind you of your September 14 commitment to address my earlier post. Not at all to be sarcastic, I know it is easy to forget posts/threads once they drop off the first page. Hoping to hear back from you. BTW, I apologize for my earlier sarcasm, I was just very frustrated with the discussion.
Joseph Botwinick,
If you see this post, am curious if you've read other neo-cons? I read Robert Kagan's The Twilight Struggle about the Sandinistas in Nicaragua and the Reagan Administration's response years ago and was very impressed. Am about to order a couple of his books (Present Dangers and Paradise and Power) from Amazon. Will let you know once I read them. BTW, I haven't read Sharansky's memoirs yet, hope to get to it in a couple of months.
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
FTR,
I would consider Alan Dershowitz to be a bit of a neocon in that he does advocate the spread of democracy and human rights as a means for achieving peace in the Middle East. Much like Sharansky, he would argue that many Palestinians are victims of what has been a corrupt, oppressive government under Arafat, and that if the world would pressure the PA to implement democratic and human rights reforms as a condition to getting their own state, then they could have a chance for peace. For more information, I would direct you to "The Case For Israel" by Alan Dershowitz. Although, I know he is mostly known as a liberal and as one of OJ's lawyers, on this, I find common ground with the man.
Joseph Botwinick
I would consider Alan Dershowitz to be a bit of a neocon in that he does advocate the spread of democracy and human rights as a means for achieving peace in the Middle East. Much like Sharansky, he would argue that many Palestinians are victims of what has been a corrupt, oppressive government under Arafat, and that if the world would pressure the PA to implement democratic and human rights reforms as a condition to getting their own state, then they could have a chance for peace. For more information, I would direct you to "The Case For Israel" by Alan Dershowitz. Although, I know he is mostly known as a liberal and as one of OJ's lawyers, on this, I find common ground with the man.
Joseph Botwinick
fromtheright
<img src =/2844.JPG>
Joe,
Yeah, I've been a bit surprised to find myself intrigued with a Dershowitz book but it has captured my interest. I may break down and get it, considering myself a fan of Israel, albeit a realistic one, still resentful over what I believe was their deliberate attack on the USS Liberty in the Six-Day War--or was it the Yom Kippur, '73 war?
Yeah, I've been a bit surprised to find myself intrigued with a Dershowitz book but it has captured my interest. I may break down and get it, considering myself a fan of Israel, albeit a realistic one, still resentful over what I believe was their deliberate attack on the USS Liberty in the Six-Day War--or was it the Yom Kippur, '73 war?
O
OCC
Guest
You aren't. People have been arrested for saying things that Bush does not like. Haven't they? Or was Fahrenheit 9/11 lying?Originally posted by SeekingTruth:
If the Patriot Act is infringing on the free exchange of ideas, how come we are free to post statements disagreeing not only with it, but with everything else the Bush administration does????
Who's been arrested ?
And yes, that movie took several liberties with truth.
But you first. Who's been jailed for bad-mouthng Bush ?
I also find it interesting that you seem to know more leftist rhetoric than scripture.
And yes, that movie took several liberties with truth.
But you first. Who's been jailed for bad-mouthng Bush ?
I also find it interesting that you seem to know more leftist rhetoric than scripture.
O
OCC
Guest
Who's been arrested? The people in the movie.
Who's been jailed for bad-mouthing Bush? The people who have been jailed for bad-mouthing Bush.
Your last statement...was a cheap shot. I know some Scripture...I'm not a Bible scholar but that was low and not worth a response...but I can't help myself. Where have I not shown that I know Scripture by the way? Because we disagree on it? You do realize that I could level the same charge at you then?
Who's been jailed for bad-mouthing Bush? The people who have been jailed for bad-mouthing Bush.
Your last statement...was a cheap shot. I know some Scripture...I'm not a Bible scholar but that was low and not worth a response...but I can't help myself. Where have I not shown that I know Scripture by the way? Because we disagree on it? You do realize that I could level the same charge at you then?
O
OCC
Guest
BTW...would that be unrequested cheap shot number 55 from you? I lost count...
No, because you never can find it. It's always "I remember a verse that says"...
And after your comment about ter'rists & shotguns in the air, you lost any right to complain about how yer treated around here.
And after your comment about ter'rists & shotguns in the air, you lost any right to complain about how yer treated around here.
O
OCC
Guest
I have lost NO right. I was trying to be funny. Good grief you people have absolutely no sense of humour. You can't handle me sharing anything personal. What the heck do you WANT?
So WHAT if I can't remember? I still know THE VERSE. Must I remember the REFERENCE as well? I didn't know it was a rule to look all throughout my Bible for the reference when I know the VERSE.
BTW...that is unrequested cheap shot number 56 from you? You lost any right for ME to take you seriously. Is that ugly baby your pic?
So WHAT if I can't remember? I still know THE VERSE. Must I remember the REFERENCE as well? I didn't know it was a rule to look all throughout my Bible for the reference when I know the VERSE.
BTW...that is unrequested cheap shot number 56 from you? You lost any right for ME to take you seriously. Is that ugly baby your pic?
O
OCC
Guest
Or are you saying the baby is cute and you are complimenting me?
O
OCC
Guest
Oh come now...where did the picture of the baby go? Hmmm?
Magnetic Poles
New Member
I think a fearful populous will follow a megalomaniacal leader down a dark path. It happens time after time.
BTW, does everyone still have their plastic tarps and duct tape?
BTW, does everyone still have their plastic tarps and duct tape?
Anybody tell me why Joseph of the O/T was such a hero for Israel ?
O
OCC
Guest
Because he stored the food for seven years to help them survive.
Yup. He saw hard times coming and prepared.
O
OCC
Guest
Yup. And helped his people.