Free Will in the Early Church 1

[SavedByGrace]

The will of Christians is to be submissive to the will of God and not expressed.

[Jas 4:13-16 ESV] 13 Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and make a profit"-- 14 yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes. 15 Instead you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that." 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.

Lucifer was the first created being to express his will. Therefore, when man expresses his will, he is following Lucifer's lead.

we are here discussing the "will" of the unsaved, and not those who have the Holy Spirit living in them

 

[SavedByGrace]

The more I read from you the more I think you are a Roman Catholic. Are you?

 

[AustinC]

[emoji23]Laugh[emoji23]Roflmao[emoji23]Roflmao

Laugh all you wish. Your theology is just like a Roman Catholic, other than perhaps seeing the sacraments as symbolic rather than effectual.
You are preaching the same works based version of grace that Roman Catholic leaders preach.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Laugh all you wish. Your theology is just like a Roman Catholic, other than perhaps seeing the sacraments as symbolic rather than effectual.
You are preaching the same works based version of grace that Roman Catholic leaders preach.

please give ONE example from what I have written anywhere on BB to justify your crank remarks!

 

[AustinC]

please give ONE example from what I have written anywhere on BB to justify your crank remarks!

Repentance is REQUIRED before God can save you. That is a Roman Catholic teaching. Martin Luther tried it. He was not saved by repentance. Martin Luther was saved by God, justifying him by faith.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Repentance is REQUIRED before God can save you. That is a Roman Catholic teaching

you are WILFULLY blind!"

Jesus Christ:

“The time is fulfilled,” He said, “and the kingdom of God is near. REPENT and BELIEVE in the gospel!” (Mark 1:15)

"and that REPENTANCE FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS should be proclaimed in His Name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem" (Luke 24:47)

Peter:

"Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we DO?” And Peter said to them, “REPENT and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:37-38)

"REPENT therefore, and turn back, THAT YOUR SINS MAY BE BLOTTED OUT" (Acts 3:19)

If you still refuse to listen to the Word of God, then I can no longer say anything. You will need to sort this out with the Lord!

 

[Yeshua1]

so, according to you, all the early Church theologians, even those very Orthodox, were blinded to this "truth", that only was revealed to Augustine! This is more rubbish from the reformed!

I am just saying do not see any of the Church fathers as inspired and authoritative, unlike the Catholics and the Orthodox!

 

[Yeshua1]

what complete rubbish!

They were spiritual blind, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

Repentance is REQUIRED before God can save you. That is a Roman Catholic teaching. Martin Luther tried it. He was not saved by repentance. Martin Luther was saved by God, justifying him by faith.

Repenting of what is the question, as Ray Comfort in the Way of the Master agreed with our brother here!

 

[Yeshua1]

you are WILFULLY blind!"

Jesus Christ:

“The time is fulfilled,” He said, “and the kingdom of God is near. REPENT and BELIEVE in the gospel!” (Mark 1:15)

"and that REPENTANCE FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS should be proclaimed in His Name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem" (Luke 24:47)

Peter:

"Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we DO?” And Peter said to them, “REPENT and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:37-38)

"REPENT therefore, and turn back, THAT YOUR SINS MAY BE BLOTTED OUT" (Acts 3:19)

If you still refuse to listen to the Word of God, then I can no longer say anything. You will need to sort this out with the Lord!

was speaking unto Jewish peoples, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

Laugh all you wish. Your theology is just like a Roman Catholic, other than perhaps seeing the sacraments as symbolic rather than effectual.
You are preaching the same works based version of grace that Roman Catholic leaders preach.

many do seem to go for that type of salvation theology today!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Repenting of what is the question, as Ray Comfort in the Way of the Master agreed with our brother here!

Charles Hodge On Repentance

 

[AustinC]

you are WILFULLY blind!"

Jesus Christ:

“The time is fulfilled,” He said, “and the kingdom of God is near. REPENT and BELIEVE in the gospel!” (Mark 1:15)

"and that REPENTANCE FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS should be proclaimed in His Name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem" (Luke 24:47)

Peter:

"Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we DO?” And Peter said to them, “REPENT and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:37-38)

"REPENT therefore, and turn back, THAT YOUR SINS MAY BE BLOTTED OUT" (Acts 3:19)

If you still refuse to listen to the Word of God, then I can no longer say anything. You will need to sort this out with the Lord!

Do you read the Bible that came before the gospels? Are you aware of the covenant relationship God had with Israel?

Let us look at your verses, since this is what guides us.

Mark 1:14-15
Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

For whom was the time fulfilled? Answer: The chosen people of God. The people of the promise. These person's were called to repent and believe. This was not for all humanity.

Luke 24:44-48
Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things.

Here we see that the elect and chosen from all nations are to be called to repentance. 1 John 1:9 tells us that God is faithful to forgive us.

Acts 2:37-38 has already been addressed.

Acts 2:37-38
Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Notice what God did first. Do you see it? I bolded it for you so you can clearly see what comes first.

Finally...

Acts 3:16-21
And his name—by faith in his name—has made this man strong whom you see and know, and the faith that is through Jesus has given the man this perfect health in the presence of you all. “And now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did also your rulers. But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ would suffer, he thus fulfilled. Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.

Notice the emphasis on faith.
Notice Peter calls them brothers. These are not pagans. God has cut them to the heart. Thus, they will respond in repentance.

Are you still unable to see that God first makes people alive before they can respond in repentance? The very passages you chose actually show you your error. Now, will you continue to deny God the glory and honor he deserves as the one who drags rebellious people to Himself?

 

[Yeshua1]

Charles Hodge On Repentance

The Holy Spirit convicts us that we are a sinner and need Jesus to save us, as THAT is repenting!

 

[Yeshua1]

Do you read the Bible that came before the gospels? Are you aware of the covenant relationship God had with Israel?

Let us look at your verses, since this is what guides us.

Mark 1:14-15
Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

For whom was the time fulfilled? Answer: The chosen people of God. The people of the promise. These person's were called to repent and believe. This was not for all humanity.

Luke 24:44-48
Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things.

Here we see that the elect and chosen from all nations are to be called to repentance. 1 John 1:9 tells us that God is faithful to forgive us.

Acts 2:37-38 has already been addressed.

Acts 2:37-38
Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Notice what God did first. Do you see it? I bolded it for you so you can clearly see what comes first.

Finally...

Acts 3:16-21
And his name—by faith in his name—has made this man strong whom you see and know, and the faith that is through Jesus has given the man this perfect health in the presence of you all. “And now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did also your rulers. But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ would suffer, he thus fulfilled. Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.

Notice the emphasis on faith.
Notice Peter calls them brothers. These are not pagans. God has cut them to the heart. Thus, they will respond in repentance.

Are you still unable to see that God first makes people alive before they can respond in repentance? The very passages you chose actually show you your error. Now, will you continue to deny God the glory and honor he deserves as the one who drags rebellious people to Himself?

God was calling them to repent of the great sin of killing off the Messiah....

 

[Wesley Briggman]

we are here discussing the "will" of the unsaved, and not those who have the Holy Spirit living in them

[Jhn 8:44 KJV] 44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

[Rom 6:16 KJV] 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Those that are dead in their trespasses and sins are Satan's children and obey his will.

So once was I. I have been redeemed!!

 

[SavedByGrace]

[Jhn 8:44 KJV] 44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

[Rom 6:16 KJV] 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Those that are dead in their trespasses and sins are Satan's children and obey his will.

So once was I. I have been redeemed!!

are you suggesting that after salvation, the Christian becomes "perfect" and always pleases the Lord in every way? There are many true believers who are in some "bondage" to different sins, even among the "Reformed". I know some personally!

 

[Wesley Briggman]

are you suggesting that after salvation, the Christian becomes "perfect" and always pleases the Lord in every way? There are many true believers who are in some "bondage" to different sins, even among the "Reformed". I know some personally!

No.

[1Jo 1:10 KJV] 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

[Heb 12:1 KJV] 1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,